How much Highland attire goes to the Highlands?

**Steve Ashton** · 10th August 13, 04:45 PM

This puts an end to the controversy.

http://venetianred.net/tag/tartan/

In particular the 5th paragraph -

"For textile lovers there was one additional intriguing detail in the story—microscopic examination of their clothes revealed fibers not of wool, but of the outer hair of goat, which had been elaborately dyed green, blue, and brown, and woven in a twill pattern, otherwise known as tartan."

The sixth paragraph -

"Generally speaking, twill weaves are produced by crossing the weft (horizontal) threads over and under multiple warp (vertical) threads. It yields a softer and more wrinkle-resist cloth than plain weave (over on, under one). In tartans, the pattern of colored threads is repeated through both the weft (vertical) and warp threads to form a cloth of interlocking squares."

The seventh paragraph -

"Tartan is an ancient weave, dating back at least 5,000 years. In addition to the Tarim graves, it has been found in the salt-mine graves of Hallstatt peoples in the Austrian Salzkammergut, where it has been dated to 1200 BCE. After making a detailed study of the Tarim basin mummy fabric, Elizabeth Barber concluded that it was strikingly similar to Celtic tartans in weave structure. She conjectured that the two shared a common origin in the Caucasus Mountains of Southern Russia and that quite possibly peoples had migrated out of the Caucasus in two waves, one west to Europe, the other east to Central Asia."

You may now continue with the original topic of this thread without the additional off-topic discussion.

**AcuteEnigma** · 10th August 13, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by StevieR

Hissy fits?

I won't repeat my questions, but perhaps you could have a look at them and explain what relevance the statements made in your post have to this thread and where in the thread someone has expressed upset at the wearing of tartan outside Scotland?

I refer you to posts #4 and #16 of this thread.

**Downunder Kilt** · 10th August 13, 05:04 PM

Getting back to the OP's question, I would also suspect that the Asian production of highland wear would also be more targeted at persons outwith of Scotland

**RockyR** · 10th August 13, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt

Getting back to the OP's question, I would also suspect that the Asian production of highland wear would also be more targeted at persons outwith of Scotland

With no malice intended, I ask: How does that go to the OP's question? How did you reach that conclusion? Considering the kilt choices of those pictured in Tartan Army photos and proliferation on Scottish high streets, I think it would be fairly evenly distributed.

**TheOfficialBren** · 10th August 13, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by RockyR

With no malice intended, I ask: How does that go to the OP's question? How did you reach that conclusion? Considering the kilt choices of those pictured in Tartan Army photos and proliferation on Scottish high streets, I think it would be fairly evenly distributed.

My thoughts as well. I am certain that a lot of those guys are not wearing Scottish-made wool kilts in some of those rowdy photos. Maybe their 'stunt' kilts instead?

**Downunder Kilt** · 10th August 13, 05:53 PM

Because the OP's question was " but how much of the current market for Highland Attire is in Scotland as compared to the rest of the world?"
I could not find any reference to it being Highland attire made only in Scotland or even the UK.
As to my suspicion, just the sheer volume of population of Scotland v the populations of say the USA, Canada, England, Australia, Europe, Asia and the amount of those persons associating themselves with Scottish heritage that are outwith Scotland.

**English Bloke** · 10th August 13, 05:57 PM

Lots of imported non-wool kilts and cheap leather-board sporrans being worn in Scotland Mike. Certainly more than home-grown wool kilts and high end sporrans. Then again, there is a recession on...

**Downunder Kilt** · 10th August 13, 06:01 PM

Rocky and John, As I said just my suspicion on weight of numbers, no hard facts and also willing to accept correction from those on the ground. Cheers.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 11th August 13, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Phil

I do hope that your insulting reference to "grumpy old Highland kilt wearers" is not directed towards any member here in particular and that "dour Scots traditionalists" is similarly not meant to refer to that or any other member.

Sorry, I have been absent from this thread for a few days, as I have not had much time in front of the computer. But no, rest assured that I was not directing my comment towards anyone in particular, nor anyone on this forum. For future reference, a clear way to tell when I am directing a comment towards someone is that their name will precede that comment, as in, "Phil, please calm down. I was not meaning to insult anyone and merely intended to point out the irony of most Scottish Highland Dress goods being shipped outwith the Highlands."

And indeed, that's all I was attempting to do. We don't have to know them in person to know that people *are* out there who think it is *just wrong* for people outside of the Highlands to wear the kilt. I've met them. I'm sure you have, too. I have no ill will towards them, and they are certainly entitled to their opinion. But it is worth considering that if Highland Dress suppliers limited their customer base to only those who lived in the Highlands, they would have been out of business long ago. And where would that have left us?

I don't think those who would prefer the kilt be limited to only native Scottish Highlanders (*not* meaning anyone on this forum) often consider the ramifications of their opinion, were it to be taken seriously by the kilt-wearing world at large. So, when the OP asked about how much Highland Dress merchandise was sold outwith the Highlands, it prompted my comment on that.

The terms "grumpy" and "dour" were not meant to be insulting, although yes, I realize I was purposefully playing into a stereotype. Some people fit that stereotype. (Again, *not* meaning anyone on this forum). I thought by using those terms it would be made clear that I was referring in a general way to those who fit that stereotype, and not to anyone on the forum in particular. I certainly hope that my other postings and reputation on the forum would stand as evidence that I certainly do not see Highland Dress traditionalists as a group as "grumpy" and "dour" people - even though some individuals among them may fit that description from time to time (I am sure myself included, more often than I might realize).

Besides, I did put a smiley on the end. Though maybe I needed one with bigger teeth....

**unixken** · 11th August 13, 12:57 PM

Some times it's hard to convey facial expressions, tone of voice, mannerisms, and other visual clues that would help to demonstrate a sense of lightheartedness in the expression of a thought, a friendly jab, or simply a point to be made, when all we have to work with is written text.

And yeah, Matt... you're such a meany.
*wink wink... nudge nudge... say no more*