Tartan Types and Purposes:

[Colin]

Is it safe to wear my Black Watch kilt in N. Ireland, or would I be better off with something like a Maple Leaf or other regional Canadian tartan, or perhaps I should just leave my kilt(s) at home?

Can you ever go wrong with a Canadian tartan? Could be the safe route, by not trying to figure out the politics of another country. Also a good excuse to tell the wife as to why you had to order that new kilt.

[macwilkin]

A nice article that explains the history of the military tartans is found on the Scottish Military Historical Society's web site:

http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/disp_020.htm

From this article, it appears that the definition of "universal" in this case refers to the fact that all Scottish regiments at one time wore the government tartan.

Also see this snippet from the SMHS:


Notes on Military Tartan in General.

General Wade having ordered that the pattern and colouring of the plaids for the Independent Companies of Highlanders, later regimented as the Black Watch, should be as nearly as possible uniform, the black, blue and green sett was chosen, which later became famous as the 42nd Black Watch (or Government) tartan.

When further Highland regiments were raised between 1745 and 1800, this sett became the official Government or Military tartan, though it was modified in one or two cases by the addition of a coloured stripe, or stripes, and was not adopted by the 79th or Cameron Highlanders. (Note it also formed the basis of many present-day civilian tartans).

The drummers of regiments wearing this plain tartan usually had a stripe of the Regimental facing colour added, which may have given the idea of the addition of a coloured stripe for the whole regiment where this was adopted. (In some corps, different ranks and appointment were distinguished by a colour stripe, and in those where all ranks had a stripe of the facing colour, that of the drummers was broader than that of the remainder).

Of the Regiments existing in the early 19th century, those who originally made this addition to the military sett were the 71st Highlanders formerly the 73rd or Lord MacLeod's Highlanders (facings: buff), who added a buff and a red stripe; the 78th or Ross-shire Buffs (facings: buff), who added white and red (though owing to their title and facings it is possible that originally the 'white' may have been pale buff, changing later to white as in the case of the 73rd); and the 92nd (facings: yellow), a single yellow stripe chosen by the Duke of Gordon from sample patterns ordered with single, double and treble stripes. The 72nd Seaforths' (so far as known), 74th, 75th, 91st and 93rd retained the plain Military Government sett. For the 79th, Colonel Cameron of Erracht instituted an entirely different tartan, namely, the '79th Regimental' or 'Erracht'.

Cheers!

T.

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[Jimmy Carbomb]

For the 79th, Colonel Cameron of Erracht instituted an entirely different tartan, namely, the '79th Regimental' or 'Erracht'.

And I own an authentic pair of trews in the Cameron of Erracht tartan! These were from the Canadian Regiments. Old pair, but still looking new... like you would expect from quality workmanship.

That's a GREAT post too! They all have to have their OWN little niche, don't they?!

[Mr. Kilt]

Can you ever go wrong with a Canadian tartan? Could be the safe route, by not trying to figure out the politics of another country. Also a good excuse to tell the wife as to why you had to order that new kilt.

Hehehehehe...excellent point!!

[phil h]

things change due to use,so I think we can wear black watch,like who's gunna stop me.
just like the rampant lion is considered the second flag of scotland next to the saltire.when the rampant lion is the flag of the queen while she is in scotland.I think if most scots knew this, they would not fly the rampant lion, for fear of beeing seen as a loyalist.

[Jimmy Carbomb]

things change due to use,so I think we can wear black watch,like who's gunna stop me.
just like the rampant lion is considered the second flag of scotland next to the saltire.when the rampant lion is the flag of the queen while she is in scotland.I think if most scots knew this, they would not fly the rampant lion, for fear of beeing seen as a loyalist.

What a GREAT post! And it applies to MUCH more than the Scottish Rampant Lion flag. It's exactly the same with the tartans.... with the BIG difference being that we're mobile with our display. Again, it's where you're at, and what you know.

Your areas not exactly a bastion of knowledge in Celtic tradition? You're pretty much going to be able to wear what YOU DETERMINE IS PROPER. Just like that flag... a tartan may look cool, but there's a meaning behind it. It's up to your educated mind on what you display, on your flagpole or on your backside.

Great point and example Phil!

[phil h]

things change due to use,so I think we can wear black watch,like who's gunna stop me.
just like the rampant lion is considered the second flag of scotland next to the saltire.when the rampant lion is the flag of the queen while she is in scotland.I think if most scots knew this, they would not fly the rampant lion, for fear of beeing seen as a loyalist.

What a GREAT post! And it applies to MUCH more than the Scottish Rampant Lion flag. It's exactly the same with the tartans.... with the BIG difference being that we're mobile with our display. Again, it's where you're at, and what you know.

Your areas not exactly a bastion of knowledge in Celtic tradition? You're pretty much going to be able to wear what YOU DETERMINE IS PROPER. Just like that flag... a tartan may look cool, but there's a meaning behind it. It's up to your educated mind on what you display, on your flagpole or on your backside.

Great point and example Phil!

thanx

[macwilkin]

Jimmy,

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you on this one!

I choose not to fly the Lion Rampant because I know its symbolism -- BUT, I do not enforce those beliefs on others -- I have never told anyone flying it that they should take it down -- at least they are displaying Scottish pride. I wish more who fly it at Scottish events, etc. would take the time to learn the history & symbolism of the flag (it dates back to the Scottish King William The Lion), so at least I can attempt to educate without preaching.

The same with the BW tartan -- as long as someone isn't impersonating a Black Watch Jock (save reenactors) and wearing the full "kit", then why not? So much of Scottish "kit" comes from the Scottish Regiments of the British Army anyway, and the Independent Highland Companies in many ways started it all. And, now that the BW is threatened by the politician's pen, we want their legacy and history to survive. Knowing the history behind the tartan will help.

For Americans, the BW tartan should strike a lot of pride -- it was the Black Watch who refused to take Battle Honours on their colours for the American Revolution because it was a war between family. Americans who wear the BW are paying tribute to that gallant spirit, INMHO.

Cheers!

T.

[Jimmy Carbomb]

...so at least I can attempt to educate without preaching.

Honestly, I've never met anyone who was as well-educated as you, that was such a pleasant guy. Usually, the imbedded information makes them unbending, imposing and unidirectional.

You're obviously a scholar in history! You've been able to take numerous versions of history, from numerous sources, and make educated and rational conclusions. That's not easy!

That's why I always enjoy your posts. Informative... educational... and civil. I just wish that the majority of posters that are getting "warned" would take notice of your style. It's appreciated.

[macwilkin]

Jimmy,

A friend of mine in Queensland, Australia once said in an e-mail:

we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

That has kinda become my mantra over the years. I like discussion, even wi' people that differ from my point-of-view.

I pride myself on being a "public" historian that rescues history from the pompous world of academia. That's why I teach at a community college. History should be accessible to everyone, and told as a story. I guess that's why I became a "bard" of sorts. Bards also got diplomatic immunity, which is what my civility gets me!

Cheers!

T.