PC Waistcoat Options: 3 vs 5 Button

[EagleJCS]

John, I almost always wear a three or four button evening waistcoat with a dinner jacket, instead of a cummerbund. I wouldn't call wearing a waistcoat with a tuxedo a "trend", unless it is one of those horrid looking waistcoats with five buttons favoured by the Hollywood set!

Sandy, I only mentioned it as a 'trend' because about 30 years ago (when I started noticing such things), most formal-wear rental shops were offering cummerbunds or the low-gorge "backless" vests (vestlets?) and apparently had been for several years. Very few formal 5-button vests were seen except as costume bits for (Western) re-enactors and even three-piece suits were on the way out. Then, about 10-15 years ago when my best friend and my brother were getting married, the rental places had switched to the high-gorge 5-button vests and cummerbunds were passe'.

[OC Richard]

If we take "tradition" into account, yes, when the "coatee" or "Prince Charlie coatee" was introduced in the early 20th century it was always associated with a low-cut waistcoat, matching the jacket, or red, or tartan (here in the 1936 Anderson catalogue)



and here in a Peter Henderson catalogue from the 1920s (though the waistcoat has five buttons!)



When I first saw Kilt Hire places pairing Prince Charlies with the waistcoats from Argyll jackets it looked clumsy and out of place, apparently an ad hoc measure to allow them to only have to keep one style of waistcoat in stock.

But... I picked up a used PC on Ebay a while back, which didn't come with a waistcoat, and when I wore the PC to the Black Watch concert I had to press my ordinary waistcoat into service. I concluded it wasn't such a bad thing after all (especially as I wore a long tie, which I prefer)

[vdubguru]

Wow, thanks for all the comments and input! Glad to see the question has created such a great conversation.

I've decided to go with the "traditional" 3 button as suggested above since it will be used primarily on formal occasions, for the next year anyway. After that, I'll likely invest in a less formal Argyle or Crail option.

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting the phone call from the Kilt Maker to tell me it's ready to pickup... any time now Pictures soon!

Thanks again!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Wow, thanks for all the comments and input! Glad to see the question has created such a great conversation.

I've decided to go with the "traditional" 3 button as suggested above since it will be used primarily on formal occasions, for the next year anyway. After that, I'll likely invest in a less formal Argyle or Crail option.

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting the phone call from the Kilt Maker to tell me it's ready to pickup... any time now Pictures soon!

Thanks again!

Let me toss that cat in amongst the pigeons and suggest a slightly more useful alternative:

A black barathea Argyll jack with both a 3 button and a 5 button waistcoat.

Worn with a black bow tie and 3 button waistcoat a black barathea Argyll is every bit as dressy as a Prince Charlie coatee; when paired with a 5 button waistcoat and a regular neck tie it is the same as a dark suit worn to dinner or a concert, wedding or a funeral. In effect, you get two outfits for the price of one, plus the paltry cost of a second waistcoat.

[vdubguru]

Macmillan,
thanks for the reply. I've been tossing this idea around as well and really like this option.
Does anyone else agree? If I can get more use out of the Argyle, I sure would like to!
I've been thinking that a PC would be a bit too formal for times when I'm at a wedding or non-black-tie-event.

What say you Rabble?

[BCAC]

Macmillan,
thanks for the reply. I've been tossing this idea around as well and really like this option.
Does anyone else agree? If I can get more use out of the Argyle, I sure would like to!
I've been thinking that a PC would be a bit too formal for times when I'm at a wedding or non-black-tie-event.

What say you Rabble?

I agree. Excellent idea.

[Calgacus]

Hi Paul,

I agree that the barathea Argyll with two waistcoats is a great way to get flexibility without the expense of buying everything at once. You can then get a PC or a doublet at a later date if you so desire.

In my view, the PC is evening wear only, and should really only be worn with a 3 button waistcoat.

As an aside, I think the gauntlet cuffs of the Argyll make it a shade dressier than the Braemar or Crail variants.

http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/which_jacket.htm

[artificer]

Let me toss that cat in amongst the pigeons and suggest a slightly more useful alternative:

A black barathea Argyll jack with both a 3 button and a 5 button waistcoat.

Worn with a black bow tie and 3 button waistcoat a black barathea Argyll is every bit as dressy as a Prince Charlie coatee; when paired with a 5 button waistcoat and a regular neck tie it is the same as a dark suit worn to dinner or a concert, wedding or a funeral. In effect, you get two outfits for the price of one, plus the paltry cost of a second waistcoat.

This is what I do.

I don't particularly care for the PC, I think the cut of the Argyll is more flattering to my body type, AND I can wear it for more events than the PC would be appropriate for.
I also have a bias-cut 4 button waistcoat that I can wear for black tie as well.

Usually the Argyll comes with a 5 button waistcoat, so keep an eye out on eBay for the 3 button. They pop up relatively regularly.

Macmillan,
thanks for the reply. I've been tossing this idea around as well and really like this option.
Does anyone else agree? If I can get more use out of the Argyle, I sure would like to!
I've been thinking that a PC would be a bit too formal for times when I'm at a wedding or non-black-tie-event.

What say you Rabble?

+ 1

ith:

[David Host]

Personally, I can't bear the thought of somebody wearing either a high cut waistcoat or a regular necktie to a black tie event. Personally I find the cut if a PC to be quite flattering but if you must, a black barathea Argyll jacket with both waistcoats sounds like an acceptable alternative to me.

[fluter]

As has been mentioned before, the black Argyll has one more trick in store; it could serve for a formal daytime event (morning dress).

Add in your best hose and shoes, perhaps a wing collar and a discreet cravat, and you'll look better than the groomsmen in their magenta cummerbunds, or whatever the bride & formal-wear shop concocted.