National Anthem etiquette

[EagleJCS]

Maybe those who don't place their hand over their heart are not US citizens. I'm not and I don't, even though I've lived in the US for many years. According to this thread that is correct, but I wouldn't anyway because it isn't something we do even for our own anthem. I stand for all national anthems, of course.

I can't speak for Jim, but what I find annoying is people who don't stand for any national anthem - much less their own, esp. if they're U.S. citizens at a U.S.-based event (sports or something else) - but do one or more of the following: 1) continue to sit and chatter/yell at their neighbor(s); 2) attempt to walk in front/behind/around me while I'm paying respects; or 3) remain hunched over their phone/beverage/meal all while the national anthem is being performed (either played/sung).

But, they'll join in the yelling/cheering that starts up in the last couple of bars of the tune. (That's another thing that I find mildly irritating. Yet another instance of 'groupthink' or Pavlovian conditioning. It even occurs when the audience is asked to remain silent at the end of the anthem.)

[English Bloke]

If I'm in an international group hug, I stand to attention for all anthems. If it's mine being played, I even stand in my own front room. It's engrained in the fibre of my being. I don't do hand on heart, it's not the British way, although I do admire it and a piece of me wishes we did...

I do love my National Anthem and it stirs my heart and reflects to me at least the pride I have in being British (first and foremost) but I must admit, I have never heard, in my 50+ years, the obnoxious, anti jacobite verse six sung, much less the British National Anthem played (or sung) six times.

But there seems to be an expedient to use this ancient and archaic verse in modern propaganda to bolster anti English sentiment. I'm OK with that, in fact it makes me smile. It's a time of change and any ammunition, no matter how old, is good ammunition.

I personally agree with the Scots and believe the British National Anthem, much as I love it, is now past it's usefulness. It doesn't command the same respect it once did. The other countries of the Union have their own anthems now and seem to take particular pride in their dis-association with God save the Queen. I'm inclined to think the English should go the same way as we no longer seem to be unified as a single Nation comprised of four, so perhaps it IS time we moved on.

I'll now happily sing "Flower of Scotland" and "Land of My Fathers" with the best of 'em. I didn't at one time, as McClef can testify, but I do now. Maybe that adds to our unity... and it would be bad etiquette to do otherwise.

[McClef]

Not sure that I can testify regarding English Bloke and "Land of My Fathers" in either language but indeed I can regarding "Flower of Scotland" on a pub crawl in Dumfries when he was surrounded by all singing it in one pub but him when he must have felt very much in a minority but indeed he took it in good part and with respectful understanding.

Many Anthems have lyrics with long memories regarding historical incidents and others have ones which simply celebrate the land and the culture, but perhaps the music is what ultimately stirs the breast. Too much can be made of an odd rogue verse long past its historical significance which is no longer sung, I am sure that many countries have such "skeletons" in the proverbial closet. In Britain, as in many other countries, there can be primary and secondary identities which leads to a variety of anthems and also lyrics. We see this in events such as the Six Nations where the English Team will still sing God Save the Queen yet in the Commonwealth Games it will be "Land of Hope and Glory" which at the Last Night of the Proms will be happily sung by representatives of all the British home nations attending.

Many anthems have several verses but only the first is usually sung and how many folk actually know the whole lot is probably pretty rare. I have to confess that I couldn't get the words of the second verse of The Queen right, nor of Land of My Fathers. nor any other anthem bar, guess what, Flower of Scotland!

[English Bloke]

I admit, I wouldn't be able to manage the Welsh Language anthem. And I'm a first verse only kind of chap, even with the English version... I do know all the words to Jerusalem though... all four verses too.

[McClef]

FOUR verses? Did you sing it twice?

[McClef]

Ah, the printed lyrics show it as 4 verses, but when sung to Parry's music they only come across as two.

[English Bloke]

It is four x four line verses of words by one Bloke (Blake) put to music in a two stanza format by another Bloke (Parry).

[McClef]

I have lived with "Jerusalem" from a very young age as Mum sang it to my brother and myself when she tucked us up in bed.

My Dad would whistle "Colonel Bogey" when it was his turn!

[Peter Crowe]

If I'm in an international group hug, I stand to attention for all anthems. If it's mine being played, I even stand in my own front room. It's engrained in the fibre of my being. I don't do hand on heart, it's not the British way, although I do admire it and a piece of me wishes we did...

I do love my National Anthem and it stirs my heart and reflects to me at least the pride I have in being British (first and foremost) but I must admit, I have never heard, in my 50+ years, the obnoxious, anti jacobite verse six sung, much less the British National Anthem played (or sung) six times.

But there seems to be an expedient to use this ancient and archaic verse in modern propaganda to bolster anti English sentiment. I'm OK with that, in fact it makes me smile. It's a time of change and any ammunition, no matter how old, is good ammunition.

I personally agree with the Scots and believe the British National Anthem, much as I love it, is now past it's usefulness. It doesn't command the same respect it once did. The other countries of the Union have their own anthems now and seem to take particular pride in their dis-association with God save the Queen. I'm inclined to think the English should go the same way as we no longer seem to be unified as a single Nation comprised of four, so perhaps it IS time we moved on.

I'll now happily sing "Flower of Scotland" and "Land of My Fathers" with the best of 'em. I didn't at one time, as McClef can testify, but I do now. Maybe that adds to our unity... and it would be bad etiquette to do otherwise.

I think we could learn from the Canadian practice here and use our own national anthems and keep God Save the Queen (King) as an anthem for when HM is present.

As to a Scottish anthem I must confess much as I like Flower of Scotland at Murrayfield or Hampden, I do not believe it should be our national anthem. I personally prefer Is There for Honest Poverty aka A Man's a Man for a' That, which when sung at the proper tempo could be Scotland's equivalent to La Marseillaise.

I stand at attention head uncovered for all national anthems, and for the Star Spangled Banner I stood at attention until I became a citizen and thereafter placed my right hand over my heart as is the custom here, regardless of how odd it still feels to my Scottish (British) sensibility on such matters (due to my upbringing). It is the custom for US citizens and I cheerfully conform.

[McClef]

Several countries do indeed have God Save The Queen as the Royal anthem whilst having their own national anthems which are the ones normally used.

However England still has no official anthem and seems have GSTQ in use as well as the Anthems with tunes by Elgar and Parry. whereas the remaining constituent UK nations have more or less settled theirs at least for the present. I have never heard of much support for the ones you like Peter and little support for others such as Scots Wha Hae or Highland Cathedral (I love the latter but it has no official words). Before the Corries, Scotland The Brave was considered the standard Scottish anthem but has largely been supplanted outside of André Rieu concerts.