Ravenswood Leather kilt

[Canuck]

Having made wool kilts in the Reverse Kingusse Pleating, I find the swish to be very good almost the same as a knife pleat.

[TheOfficialBren]

I would LOVE to branch out away from knife pleats. They get boring quickly. A Rev-K is on my shortlist next to a box-pleat.

[RockyR]

Further to the patent:

by Steven Jeffrey Villegas
Patent number 6,282,723
Sept. 4 2001

You can search for the full abstract of this patent through the US Patent and Trademark office.

If you read the full transcript carefully anyone who makes and sells a kilt, with what we call here Reverse Kingusse Pleating, in the US, could be in violation of this patent.

Agreed, Steve... they COULD go after anyone in the US who sells Rev K pleated kilts. That being said, I think UK has kind of given up on defending their patent to a degree though... YEARS ago, I know that a couple contemporary kiltmakers who used Rev K pleating were approached and told to either stop pleating that way or stop selling in the US. The issue becomes the cost to enforce. I think initially, UK did it to protect themselves in the US and quickly found that hiring a lawyer to send out cease and desist letters got a bit pricey. That being said, they DO hold the patent and if they did choose to go after an American company selling kilts with Rev K pleating, the other (most likely smaller) company would be forced to spend an arm and a leg in legal fees defending themselves. The question becomes, for a style of pleating, is it worth fighting over?

Here I would like Rocky to make me a custom Casual in the same material as a kilt I already have in reverse Kingusse pleat layout (all else being the same) just to answer the waggle and swish question between traditional knife pleat and Kingusse.

Unfortunately, we only do knife pleating. Not b/c of the UK patent, but b/c that's the style 99.9% of the population wants / expects and that's how we train our kiltmakers, so that's what we offer.

[Steve Ashton]

This is a thread about a Ravenwood kilt but Rocky has brought up a few points.

For a while Steven of UK an I were in contact quite often. Unfortunately we have not maintained that contact.
But the last time I visited Steven I asked him about the patent. His reply was that it was applied for by Meghan just because they could. No one had ever applied for a Patent for that before. In fact the title of the Patent is "Man's pleated skirt".
He views it like those who can say "I have a coat of arms". He can say "I have a Patent".


It is also strange that the reverse Kingussie pleating has become associated with the Utilikilt type of kilts. The MUG's. At one time there were about 20 companies making MUG's. I know of at least four that were stitch-for-stitch a UK knock-off.
The rev-K pleating is so tied to the image of the UK and the MUG that I don't make rev-K either.

Today, and in the more traditional world, the reverse Kingussie pleating is "something different". Something not often seen. If you want the bragging rights to something different go for it.

[tundramanq]

No problem Rocky, Robert answered the question for wool and it is probably true for the PV Casual also.

Steve, I have been accused of falling out of the family tree on my head a time or two.

[tundramanq]

What is has happened since my last update: e-mails ( flipped to put in chronological order.)
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From: tundraman@q.com
To: ravenswoodleather@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:29:49 AM
Subject: An idea on closing out order 2866 - the Blue kilt

Hi guys,

I would like to return this kilt and close the order. I would also like to donate $300 to the cost of producing the two kilts - prototyping in leather ain't cheap!
Hopefully the kilts will fit someone at the events you attend. I would like to know when you have the bugs worked out. This last one would have looked great if it had fit.

Anyway, I paid $865.50 less 10% or 778.95. Less the $300 donation brings it to $478.95 refund.
If this will work for you guys. I will send the kilt back UPS in the next few days.
Thank you for your efforts and good luck,

Chuck Holm
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( Shipped kilt - US 4/19 at 9:11 AM )
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From: tundraman@q.com
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:32 AM
To: Ravenswood Leather
Subject: Fwd: An idea on closing out order 2866 - the Blue kilt

Hello, I sent the kilt via UPS ground 4/19 track 1ZA8X0430301061408 ETA = wed 4/24.

Regards, Chuck
--------------------------------------------------------
Recieved April 22, 2013 2:32 PM
Charles,
Thank you, I have forwarded this on to Reginald.
Regards,
Peter Stewart
----------------------------------------------------
UPS tracking shows it was delivered 4/24 at 9:53 AM. Signed for by Stewart.

Have heard nothing further to date.

[Kalok Sundancer]

I'm in the IT business, not the garment business, but there is a simple way for him to keep his patent and "enforce" it too if he wanted to.

He could license the patent to "competitors" for one dollar and still retain the rights to the patent. This would allow the "competitors" to use the pleat pattern and yet the license could be revoked if there is some shoddy company out there putting out garbage work.

I understand why some companies keep and enforce patents. I think that the UK guys are doing this for "the right reasons", but their execution is the problem. The biggest problem is that the "patent trolls" who buy and create patents but do not actually create any products are the real problem. They're really just legalized extortionists.

[MacMillans son]

A guy in a pink leather kilt - that would really confuse 'em.

No, out here that would not be confusing at all.

[Kalok Sundancer]

Also, as an FYI, I don't believe that it requires a lawyer to get a patent declared invalid. If you can provide sufficient "prior art" to the USPO, they have a department set up for that, then they should notify the patent holder that they patent is being re-examined and that they need to respond as to why their patent is unique and different. If they don't respond sufficiently then their patent gets invalidated.

Or, at least, that's the way it works in the tech world.