Clan Heraldry: What you can and can't wear and display

[WVHighlander]

Please check your messages....sorry all for hijacking your thread.

[A Robertson]

Apart from knives - brandishing them about, most of the article is rubbish.
I would like to see the writer try telling the 'Tartan Army' what, or what not, they can do/wear!
Visit any Scotland football/rugby/hockey match - whatever sport you can think of - and the crowd will be a sea of yellow lion rampart flags.
Most coats of arms have been around for nearly a thousand years. The original owners no longer exist. You will not be imprisoned for wearing a badge, or carrying a flag, with a coat of arms on it - whether it is your coat of arms or not. Most clan tartans, or so called clan tartans did not exist until 200 years ago. (200 years is not a long period of time for the British).
Most tartans are Victorian inventions and nearly all so called 'hunting tartans' are based on British government tartans - not Scottish. Whilst not acknowledged as the correct thing to do, anyone can wear any tartan. Full stop. - unless it belongs to the Royal Family or is copywrite - and only in Great Britain.
Dress code - black tie, white tie, casual, day sporran, etc., whatever, is American protocol, not acknowledged by the vast majority of kilt wearers in GB.
Visit Scotland, enjoy it, wear, do what you want - just dont flash your knives around.
. . . . . (and MacHugh is IRISH).

[David Thorpe]

Apologies and due respect, Mr. Robertson, but your post contains quite a bit of misinformation.
The current owners of many coats of arms, especially pertaining to Scottish clans, are indeed alive and well.
Most hunting tartans are based on clan tartan setts, with color substitutions. (It is true that a number of clan tartans are based on the government sett.)
I am confident that Jock Scot and others would justifiably take issue with your statement that level-of-formality dress codes are an "American protocol". My experience has been that many Americans display either disregard or ignorance of these standards. Those that invest the time and effort to respect them are sadly a decided minority.

At least you acknowledge that some practices are not "the correct thing to do". IMHO, they need no encouragement.

[A Robertson]

Apologies and due respect, Mr. Robertson, but your post contains quite a bit of misinformation.
The current owners of many coats of arms, especially pertaining to Scottish clans, are indeed alive and well.
Most hunting tartans are based on clan tartan setts, with color substitutions. (It is true that a number of clan tartans are based on the government sett.)
I am confident that Jock Scot and others would justifiably take issue with your statement that level-of-formality dress codes are an "American protocol". My experience has been that many Americans display either disregard or ignorance of these standards. Those that invest the time and effort to respect them are sadly a decided minority.

At least you acknowledge that some practices are not "the correct thing to do". IMHO, they need no encouragement.

With the utmost respect, I agree with your reply to my post.
My intention was absolutely not to upest or denegrate American members in any shape or form. My intention was to inform 'the rabble' that this article - except the knife bit, is rubbish.
Americans have done more to preserve and respect the wearing of the tartan than even the Scots themselves. The writer of the original report is just 'scare mongering' - quoting ancient and out of date thoughts. The following are still law in GB:

1. It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament

2. It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down

3. In Liverpool, it is illegal for a woman to be topless except as a clerk in a tropical fish store
4. Mince pies cannot be eaten on Christmas Day
5. In Scotland, if someone knocks on your door and requires the use of your toilet, you must let them enter
6. In the UK a pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman's helmet
7. The head of any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the property of the King, and the tail of the Queen
8. It is illegal not to tell the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing
9. It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament in a suit of armour
10. In the city of York it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow

For real - these are still law in GB!

The original writer was quoting from the same book.

[Chas]

1. It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament

2. It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down

3. In Liverpool, it is illegal for a woman to be topless except as a clerk in a tropical fish store
4. Mince pies cannot be eaten on Christmas Day
5. In Scotland, if someone knocks on your door and requires the use of your toilet, you must let them enter
6. In the UK a pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman's helmet
7. The head of any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the property of the King, and the tail of the Queen
8. It is illegal not to tell the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing
9. It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament in a suit of armour
10. In the city of York it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow

For real - these are still law in GB!

This is all nonsense!

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[ThistleDown]

I am sure everyone here agrees with your first sentence in post 34, A-R, but after that I, for one, am not clear on how a wee in someone's hat, the tail of the Queen belonging to the King and being flat-chested in Liverpool has anything to do with Scottish laws, traditions and culture. And I am sure your law number 10 must also pertain to Robin Hood re-enactors in Nottingham but maybe that, too, is misinformation.

[Carlo]

With the utmost respect, I agree with your reply to my post.
My intention was absolutely not to upest or denegrate American members in any shape or form. My intention was to inform 'the rabble' that this article - except the knife bit, is rubbish.
Americans have done more to preserve and respect the wearing of the tartan than even the Scots themselves. The writer of the original report is just 'scare mongering' - quoting ancient and out of date thoughts.

The fact that some people don't know the rules doesn't mean they shouldn't be followed. And following the suggestions in the original report really doesn't hurt anyone.
On the other hand: suggesting that our Scottish Friends on here are talking rubbish is a wee bit extreme and does hurt people.
And by the way, I'm pretty (100%) sure that murder is illegal in GB, so your #10 can't be law in GB.

[Carl]

Another recent case that just came back to my mind was the one of Steven L. Akins (self styled "of that Ilk") from Alabama.

http://www.scots-titles.com/archives/249

http://www.scots-titles.com/fake-clan-chiefs

[ctbuchanan]

Well I guess this has gone past a few "ruffled feathers". As the OP, I was sharing the article because I found it interesting and informative on many issues. We often on this forum see posts from my fellow Americans asking what the expectations would be for wearing the kilt in Scotland. Most often with the intent of blending in and following Scottish custom and tradition. Few members, it seems to me, are looking for the Tartan Army approach (I've spent some time with them at the parade in NYC and they are a fun group, but not exactly traditional in their approach so no insult intended). And while I am confident that few are prosecuted for innocent breeches of protocol in regards to heraldry etc., I think most would rather avoid the embarrassment of crossing the line and having it pointed out to them. Also the article was fairly specific in it's intended audience - those attending the gathering this summer - and that audience would most likely be even more sensitive to 'properly' adhering Scottish custom. The part of the article that I thought would cause the most concern here in the States is the status of some of the 'clans/families' especially since some of the names are fairly prominent.

And for those who may be curious - the heraldic achievement I display is that of the Clan Buchanan Society International Inc. as granted by the Lyon Court. As a Commissioner for the CBSI I am permitted to display it.

[Jock Scot]

I think in Scotland it is pretty much understood with Highland attire that there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way and then there is the "Tartan Army's way" to wear it. A few, a very few, even in the TA would ever claim that the "Tartan Army" mode of dress was suitable for all occasions.