Clan Heraldry: What you can and can't wear and display

**ThistleDown** · 24th February 14, 11:11 AM

Carl, some of those lads have been well-known and well-rejected on XMarks. With the fund of knowledge and level of experience on board here it is difficult to pull wool. One of them has made repeated attempts to rejoin us over the years and just as often has been sent back to his mythical life.

**Carl** · 24th February 14, 11:45 AM

Sorry my mind got stuck in one track lol

**creagdhubh** · 25th February 14, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Carl

Another recent case that just came back to my mind was the one of Steven L. Akins (self styled "of that Ilk") from Alabama.

http://www.scots-titles.com/archives/249

http://www.scots-titles.com/fake-clan-chiefs

This rubbish has been going on for quite some time now. Ugh, so exhausting.

**creagdhubh** · 25th February 14, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by ThistleDown

Carl, some of those lads have been well-known and well-rejected on XMarks. With the fund of knowledge and level of experience on board here it is difficult to pull wool. One of them has made repeated attempts to rejoin us over the years and just as often has been sent back to his mythical life.

Well said, Rex. Especially the last two words.

**SlackerDrummer** · 27th February 14, 07:35 AM

I guess the whole thing boils down to whether your primary goal is to justify the status quo or to do things correctly. I can see an argument for both sides, but it is silly to say something is correct just because people do it.

Take white hose for instance.

**Nathan** · 27th February 14, 08:39 AM

The article is very useful. It comes down to a question of respect. Respect for the laws of Scotland, respect for property, respect for tradition, respect for history and respect for institutions. Arms are personal property that have been commissioned or inherited by the rightful armiger and do not belong to a collective clan or surname. To learn about these facts and to discard them as rubbish is the height of disrespect and boorishness.

**creagdhubh** · 27th February 14, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Nathan

The article is very useful. It comes down to a question of respect. Respect for the laws of Scotland, respect for property, respect for tradition, respect for history and respect for institutions. Arms are personal property that have been commissioned or inherited by the rightful armiger and do not belong to a collective clan or surname. To learn about these facts and to discard them as rubbish is the height of disrespect and boorishness.

Well said, Nathan.

**O'Callaghan** · 27th February 14, 09:36 PM

To say that the holders of coats of arms are all dead is rubbish. I will be the first to admit that the armiger of the O'Callaghan coat of arms is alive and well, albeit he lives in Spain and speaks Spanish. If I purloin his coat of arms as an avatar on this forum, it is done with affection and in the knowledge that literally millions of people display a 'family' coat of arms in their homes without knowing or caring about the rules of heraldry. I am not entirely sure who is responsible for keeping track of Irish heraldry, certainly not the authorities referred to elsewhere in this thread, but I doubt if they have a flying squad of Garda Siochanna (Irish police) at their disposal to raid errant homeowners.

There are two main legal systems in the world, the English common law and the Roman civil law, but the clan system was an outgrowth of the Brehon law, which belonged to neither of these traditions, but which the Gaels brought to the Highlands from Ireland. In Ireland the English replaced it with the English common law, but in Scotland the lowlanders replaced it with their own legal system, which was and still is based upon Roman civil law. In both cases, this lead to the demise of tanistry, the Gaelic system of succession, and therefore to the demise of the clan system itself. This partly (but not entirely) explains why the end results in both places are not identical. As for clans in the borders, you have to factor in the fact that they are from somewhere that the Brehon law never applied, which I think may be more important than whether or not you choose to call them clans.

**jfraser** · 27th February 14, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by ctbuchanan

A very interesting article posted on ScotClans I gather in advance of the gathering this summer.

This will ruffle a few feathers I think.

Coming to Scotland in 2014? Attending a Clan or Family Gathering? Want to get it right? Well aware that feathers may be ruffled and noses out-jointed, Dr Bruce Durie, Shenachie to the Chief of Durie, offers this straightforward guide…

http://www.clans2014.com/clan-herald...r-and-display/

Thanks for posting this. Working my way around the site and links proved to be very interesting. Overall, gives a insight into present and past Scotland. Plenty here for a person who is interested in things Scottish.

**ThistleDown** · 27th February 14, 11:47 PM

I don't want to be argumentative for the sake of argument, O'C, but the fact that the O'C armiger lives in Spain and speaks Spanish has no bearing on what is correct in Scotland, the OP's original question. A Coat of Arms acknowledged by Lord Lyon is the signature of an individual and may not, without consideration of fraud, be used by any other. In Scottish law it doesn't matter that you have been sold a bill of goods in Tibmuktu and that that you think you are entitled to his name and signature because of somebody else's commercial efforts: you are not.

There IS, in fact, a policeman for this misuse in Scotland. He is the Lord Lyon, and there is a somewhat similar entity in England, the College of Arms, and another in Eire, the Chief Herald. In those nations you may very well be -- and probably would be -- charged with fraud if you were to use what you consider your rightful or respectful 'coat of arms'.

One more thing: tanistry is alive and well in Scotland. That is our system of succession. Wherever did you get the idea it had been done away with?