odd looking tweed Argyll jackets on Ebay

**OC Richard** · 24th April 14, 04:31 AM

You all are probably sick of my Ebay threads but here goes!

Tartan4Less is selling a number of tweed Argyll jackets just now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LIGHT-GR...item20e3f88a84

Is it just me or is there something odd about the shapes and positioning of the entire jacket and some of its elements? Aren't the pocket flaps unusually high?

Here is one of them. The tweed is handsome but the jacket odd in subtle ways

Here's a vintage (c1960?) jacket on Ebay now for comparison

**artificer** · 24th April 14, 04:54 AM

the pockets do appear to be a few inches higher than you might expect. I think the wider lapel is also throwing things off a bit.

ith:

**Tartan Tess** · 24th April 14, 04:57 AM

I like your ebay threads Richard, you do all the work. I especially like this one because I like to "re-do" thrift store jackets.
The top jacket is strange, I prefer the vintage look.

**Tobus** · 24th April 14, 05:02 AM

Is it just me or is there something odd about the shapes and positioning of the entire jacket and some of its elements?

Yes, and to be quite honest, this is why I prefer not to buy modern kilt jackets. They don't look 'right' to me. If Steve is correct, and all the modern UK-made kilt jackets are made by the same handful of people, there isn't much expectation that we can get away from it.

What I don't like about new jackets is that they've turned boxy. Unshapely, ugly, and boring. Might as well wear a potato sack. Seriously, compare the top jacket (or pretty much any modern Argyll) to the vintage one below. Note how the vintage jacket has a tailored shape, with curves in the waist and a flare out at the bottom that accentuate a person's body. Then look at the square, boring drape of the top jacket.

The pocket placement looks odd too, but that's the least of my concerns. Even if they were lower down, the jacket shape is still awful.

**creagdhubh** · 24th April 14, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

Yes, and to be quite honest, this is why I prefer not to buy modern kilt jackets. They don't look 'right' to me. If Steve is correct, and all the modern UK-made kilt jackets are made by the same handful of people, there isn't much expectation that we can get away from it.

What I don't like about new jackets is that they've turned boxy. Unshapely, ugly, and boring. Might as well wear a potato sack. Seriously, compare the top jacket (or pretty much any modern Argyll) to the vintage one below. Note how the vintage jacket has a tailored shape, with curves in the waist and a flare out at the bottom that accentuate a person's body. Then look at the square, boring drape of the top jacket.

The pocket placement looks odd too, but that's the least of my concerns. Even if they were lower down, the jacket shape is still awful.

Pretty harsh words there, Tobus! Whereas I will agree with you to a certain extent in regards to modern Argyll jackets and their overall shape, I still think there are plenty of smart looking, off-the-rack/made to measure tweed kilt jackets out there made by reputable establishments. Of course, if one can afford, you can always go the bespoke route and have the jacket and waistcoat specifically (and truly) tailored. I agree with Scott in regards to the point he made about wide lapels. I will add, the trouble with many vintage tweed kilt jackets is the lapels; especially vintage tweed kilt jackets from the 1970s. The lapels are way too wide, which I understand was the style then, yet they tend to cover up a considerable amount of the front of the jacket. This just looks unflattering to me, but that's simply my own opinion.

Three modern tweed kilt jackets:

**McMurdo** · 24th April 14, 05:27 AM

What bothers me the most about the example above is the lack of curve for the sporran, the way it is now the jacket covers the sporran which is to my mind counter-intuitive. If the jacket curved for the sporran then the pockets would not seem so high. Also the first jacket does not have the classic British silhouette it seems far more baggy and loose than I am used to seeing it seems like an American cut rather than a British one.

**artificer** · 24th April 14, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

What I don't like about new jackets is that they've turned boxy. Unshapely, ugly, and boring. Might as well wear a potato sack.

Oi, Watch it, Mister! Some of us ARE boxy, and that potato sack is actually a fitted coat for us.

ith:

**creagdhubh** · 24th April 14, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by McMurdo

What bothers me the most about the example above is the lack of curve for the sporran, the way it is now the jacket covers the sporran which is to my mind counter-intuitive. If the jacket curved for the sporran then the pockets would not seem so high. Also the first jacket does not have the classic British silhouette it seems far more baggy and loose than I am used to seeing it seems like an American cut rather than a British one.

I agree, Glen. Excellent points here. The cut of the top jacket is more reminiscent of an American Sack suit versus an easily recognisable British cut.

**Tobus** · 24th April 14, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

Pretty harsh words there, Tobus! Whereas I will agree with you to a certain extent in regards to modern Argyll jackets and their overall shape, I still think there are plenty of smart looking, off-the-rack/made to measure tweed kilt jackets out there made by reputable establishments. Of course, if one can afford, you can always go the bespoke route and have the jacket and waistcoat specifically (and truly) tailored. I agree with Scott in regards to the point he made about wide lapels. I will add, the trouble with many vintage tweed kilt jackets is the lapels; especially vintage tweed kilt jackets from the 1970s. The lapels are way too wide, which I understand was the style then, yet they tend to cover up a considerable amount of the front of the jacket. This just looks unflattering to me, but that's simply my own opinion.

Heh, I guess my post did sound pretty harsh. I'll blame it on early-morning grumpiness due to insufficient consumption of coffee.

But I still do think that modern jackets are too boxy. I don't know how or why the style changed, but it has. Perhaps it's an industry adjustment to the increasing waistlines of customers, I dunno. But a really flattering jacket should provide some visual external shape to the wearer, even if he isn't shaped like that under the jacket. That's really what a jacket is supposed to do, isn't it? That's why we put shoulder pads in them, right? To make the shoulders wider for a more manly shape, which should be assisted by some taper in the middle. A well-fitting, nicely-cut jacket will make a man look dashing even if he's not. And no matter how you slice it, a jacket that hangs like a potato sack isn't going to do anyone any favours in this regard.

I can certainly understand if you prefer a narrower lapel. I just happen to like them, specifically because they do look vintage. But also because I think the wider lapel helps create more of an "X" shape across the front of the jacket. From the lapel's top corner, following down to the fold, and continuing across the jacket to follow the sporran cutaway, I like it to make a broad X, as I think it helps accentuate a person's shape (wider at the shoulders, narrow at the waist, and flaring back out at the hips). The wider lapels create a more visually obvious V-shape to the upper torso, accentuating the shoulders. It's something I have experimented with over time, which also has to do with the shirt collar shape and tie knot (as well as tie width). I suppose each person has to choose the combination that's right for him, but as for me personally, I just happen to love the wider lapels on vintage jackets because I do think they help provide a bit more 'dashing' shape to my body, even though I'm not particularly shapely!

You can see the "X" shape I'm talking about below, as well as the way the wider lapels create a "V" shape above the waist, accentuating the shoulders. The taper at the waist of this jacket really helps with the overall shape, even though (like I said), I'm not very shapely under the jacket.

**RockyR** · 24th April 14, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

I don't know how or why the style changed, but it has. Perhaps it's an industry adjustment to the increasing waistlines of customers, I dunno.

I would tend to agree with this statement. I'd ALSO say that today's customers expect a bit more "roomy-ness" in their jackets. When customers in my shop try on a jacket, I'd say 50% of the time, they put their arms our front and / or over their head and tell me it's too tight. I ask them (playfully) "how many times are you going to be dressed in a formal jacket / daywear jacket and be asked to do jumping jacks?" To which they put their arms at their side, go through a normal range of motion (bend at the elbow for their 12 oz curls) and then tell me it feels fine.

I agree the jackets must have a bit of shape, but they must also be 'comfortable' for the intended clientele or they run the risk of not selling. Also, as the bell curve for the average waist size has gone up over the years, I'd say the boxiness is due to the chest size staying about the same and the belly's continued growth (as a national / world average).