Tartan Flashes

[Nathan]

Speaking personally, I actually like the look of tartan flashes, either straight cut or on the bias. And I honestly don't see a lot of evidence that tartan flashes are generally deemed to be gauche. Rocky sells them, ScotWeb sells them - every kilt shop I looked at on the web sells them both here and in Scotland. And the photos of Lochcarron's custom-made kilts are shown with tartan flashes, as are ScotWeb's high end custom made kilts; ditto the kilt photos at DC Dalgliesh. So, if someone would rather wear garter ties or plain flashes, that's fine, but to state that tartan flashes are out of fashion and shouldn't be worn doesn't seem to me to match the empirical evidence.

And, in general, I'm wondering why we don't just accept that different people actually like different looks and that that's OK? If someone personally doesn't like the look of tartan flashes, why dump on someone who does? Same goes for white hose, ghillie shirts, ghillie brogues, kilts with combat boots and scrunched down hose, kilts with T-shirts, kilts with pith helmets and flat caps, kilts with bias tartan vests, accessories in brown leather for evening wear, and on and on. A kilt is not a uniform except when it is worn in a band setting (and, there, everyone _does_ need to be "uniform").

I think there's a subtext of classism or clique-ism that goes along with the judgements made about attire, kilted and not. We do wear social uniforms, they just aren't quite as...well...uniform...as a military unit or pipe band. There is still always a line within a social clique or fashion look that once you cross it, you aren't achieving the look anymore. A country music singer can wear a top hat with his cowboy boots if he wants to, but people will know something is up.

If I wear a 1970s polyester leisure suit to a business meeting, I'll be out of uniform. Similarly, there's no reason one can't wear jogging pants to a golf course or a big fur coat to a ski hill or a button down gingham shirt and well-pressed khakis to a heavy metal concert, but if you do, the regulars will know you're not one of them. They'll spot you as an outsider or neophyte.

When people talk about "how it's done" and "how it's not done" what they are really saying is, "sure a merchant never refused money and will stock anything that the unwashed masses will buy, but if you want to look like you know what you're doing, like you're 'in the know', this is how it's done."

Either you know how to dress like the castle owning, Eton educated, title inheriting, estate managing, Highland gentlemen that made the kilt famous in the post Victorian era or you don't. Either you care about looking like that, or you don't.

But since, for better or worse, this is the demographic that clung most tightly to the kilt outside of uniforms for generations, they are the tradition bearers and they have the benefit of having learned to dress from their grandfathers, fathers and uncles and not from the local tartan merchant or ebay photos.

For a kilt maker, tartan flashes are a brilliant way to avoid wasting tartan scraps and turn refuse into revenue but the aforementioned tradition bearers are a conservative lot and slow to change.

That's your answer, really, no matter how we want to sugar coat it.

[MacKenzie]

The Times - They Are a-Changin'.

[The Wizard of BC]

Nathan,

I'm gonna have to jump in here due to your last post in this thread.

You say - "For a kilt maker, tartan flashes are a brilliant way to avoid wasting tartan scraps and turn refuse into revenue but the aforementioned tradition bearers are a conservative lot and slow to change."

Bold is mine

This statement riled and upset me quite a bit. In Kiltmaking there is no scrap. The customer purchased that fabric and often at a dear cost. I always, and I mean always, return every usable piece of that expensive fabric to my customer along with their finished kilt.
If the customer asks me to make something out of what is left over from their fabric I charge a labor rate only. And I only make something out of the remainder if specifically asked to do so by the customer.

And while the rest of your post may be true it has little bearing or adds little to the discussion about Tartan flashes cut on the bias.

In fact the way I read your post it appears to be a diatribe with your off topic objection to one part, a single paragraph, from Barb. In your two posts to this thread you actually appear to be attacking her.

If we had a "NO" button along with an "aye" button I would have clicked it. With your two posts to this thread you have derailed the OP's topic totally.

Perhaps a reminder of something you may not have read in a while.

Again the bold is mine.

Rule #12
- Off Topic Threads & Posts -
a) The topic of discussion on X Marks is the kilt. Threads or posts not related to the kilt are restricted to either the Events or Community Forums.
b) Posts to existing threads must keep to the topic set by the Original Poster (OP). Posts which take a thread off the original topic may be removed.

[Nathan]

Nathan,

I'm gonna have to jump in here due to your last post in this thread.

You say - "For a kilt maker, tartan flashes are a brilliant way to avoid wasting tartan scraps and turn refuse into revenue but the aforementioned tradition bearers are a conservative lot and slow to change."

Bold is mine

This statement riled and upset me quite a bit. In Kiltmaking there is no scrap. The customer purchased that fabric and often at a dear cost. I always, and I mean always, return every usable piece of that expensive fabric to my customer along with their finished kilt.
If the customer asks me to make something out of what is left over from their fabric I charge a labor rate only. And I only make something out of the remainder if specifically asked to do so by the customer.

It certainly wasn't my intention to rile anyone up. Before I joined xmarks I paid for tartan flashes at a kilt shop to the tune of about $25. I bought them as one offs, not as part of the kilt. I've also never heard of anyone who had a kilt made receiving a bag of tartan scraps along with the finished kilt, this is news to me. I have bought scrap tartan from kiltmakers for my clan tent displays and they seemed to have quite a bit of it accumulated in the workshop.

Besides, I don't think making intelligent use of a resource is a bad thing and I don't know why turning waste into a revenue stream should be seen as a disparaging comment. If you're telling me that kilt flashes are a revenue neutral pursuit for most kilt makers, and that there is rarely waste tartan left over from the process, I stand corrected. My experience has differed, but that could atypical.

And while the rest of your post may be true it has little bearing or adds little to the discussion about Tartan flashes cut on the bias.

In fact the way I read your post it appears to be a diatribe with your off topic objection to one part, a single paragraph, from Barb. In your two posts to this thread you actually appear to be attacking her.

I'm not objecting to anything or attacking anyone. I'm the one who feels attacked right now and I respectfully submit that yours was the most aggressive post of the thread thus far.

Barb asked a question and I attempted to answer it. I attempted to answer it in earnest as I didn't think it was rhetorical. I quote:

So why be disparaging about tartan flashes??

I tried to give me my best reasoning as to why there was a demographic of traditional kilt wearers who don't like tartan flashes be they cut on the bias or otherwise.

If we had a "NO" button along with an "aye" button I would have clicked it. With your two posts to this thread you have derailed the OP's topic totally.

Perhaps a reminder of something you may not have read in a while.

Again the bold is mine.

Rule #12
- Off Topic Threads & Posts -
a) The topic of discussion on X Marks is the kilt. Threads or posts not related to the kilt are restricted to either the Events or Community Forums.
b) Posts to existing threads must keep to the topic set by the Original Poster (OP). Posts which take a thread off the original topic may be removed.

Why are you addressing me as the only person to speak about the perception of fashionability of tartan flashes? This topic was touched on by the OP and mentioned by others before I weighed in.

Okay, I know that tartan flashes seem to go almost hand-in-hand with white hose and ghillie brogues that lace up the ankle in the eyes of most of the rabble.

If a customer requests Tartan flashes (and that is very rare) I almost always make them on the bias.

The fact that your customers rarely order them implies that demand is low.

So why be disparaging about tartan flashes??

Steve: Those do look sharp.

And finally (bold mine)...

Speaking personally, I actually like the look of tartan flashes, either straight cut or on the bias. And I honestly don't see a lot of evidence that tartan flashes are generally deemed to be gauche.

Rocky sells them, ScotWeb sells them - every kilt shop I looked at on the web sells them both here and in Scotland. And the photos of Lochcarron's custom-made kilts are shown with tartan flashes, as are ScotWeb's high end custom made kilts; ditto the kilt photos at DC Dalgliesh. So, if someone would rather wear garter ties or plain flashes, that's fine, but to state that tartan flashes are out of fashion and shouldn't be worn doesn't seem to me to match the empirical evidence.

And, in general, I'm wondering why we don't just accept that different people actually like different looks and that that's OK? If someone personally doesn't like the look of tartan flashes, why dump on someone who does? Same goes for white hose, ghillie shirts, ghillie brogues, kilts with combat boots and scrunched down hose, kilts with T-shirts, kilts with pith helmets and flat caps, kilts with bias tartan vests, accessories in brown leather for evening wear, and on and on. A kilt is not a uniform except when it is worn in a band setting (and, there, everyone _does_ need to be "uniform").

While my post provided counter point to Barb's points here, I don't think it was a personal attack in any way. I put in my two cents about the questions she raised and how I saw the question objectively. I wasn't even disagreeing with her. I was just giving her my best guess as to why I think some kilt wearers do. Maybe you perceived my post as a "diatribe" "attacking her" because you were still "riled up" about my "refuse to revenue" statement discussed above.

I honestly don't see how commenting on a subject (whether they are stylish or not and why) that carried on through the thread as a sub point to the bias or straight cut question would be a rule 12 violation.

If so, wouldn't Barb's question about "why be disparaging to tartan flashes" be the actual point of departure from the OP?

So, this is your fiddle and you have the right to play it however you see fit. Perhaps I'm silly for defending myself against the forum owner and should sheepishly skulk away being suitably admonished for being a bad boy. The problem is I feel like you really overreacted and so I'm a little "riled up" myself.

It's your forum and you're the boss but there's no need to bully me. I don't think I was attacking Barb by disagreeing with her. I thought my tone was respectful and my two posts spoke directly to statements she made and questions she raised.

I do apologize if my tone came across as anything but intellectual disagreement and Barb, I respect your work, your book and your contributions to the forum. I hope I didn't make you feel the way Steve has made me feel.

[Barb T]

I expect that the issue of tartan scraps depends on who makes the kilt and for whom. If a vendor jobs a kilt out to a kiltmaker, I expect (although I don't know this for certain) that the kiltmaker returns just the kilt to the vendor for shipping to the customer. Steve and I deal with customers directly, and each kilt generates scraps. So, we both send the customer all of the scraps left over from making a kilt. This is admittedly a bit self-serving on my part - what would I do with stacks of tartan scraps in my sewing room? I'm not going to use them for anything, but the customer might. And, as Steve points out, the customer did, in fact, buy the tartan. Like many kiltmakers, I don't have bolts of tartan sitting around that I make kilts from - I order a kilt length as I need it for a kilt.

And I have been including tartan flashes with every kilt that I send out for many years. I don't charge extra for them, and, if someone were to say that he didn't want flashes, the kilt price would still be the same. I thought actually that it was a nice gesture to include them for free. Given that I'm apparently the only clueless person in the world who doesn't realize that tartan flashes are now akin to 1970s leisure suits, I will start asking if people actually want them. If they don't, it will save me a little time and money.

[Kilted Cole]

I like tartan flashes that match with the kilt. If I'm undecided on what solid color to go with, I fall back on the flashes that match with the kilt. And as for scraps, I LOVE SCRAPS! If you're looking to pair a tie with a specific kilt, what better way to go tie shopping than to carry a scrap with you instead of wearing the kilt and then bending over to see if the colors on the kilt your wearing match or not.....Fold up a scrap like a kerchief in your breast pocket, and whip that sucker out when your at the tie rack. Its saved me a LOT of un-coordinated tie purchases already.

And as per the cut to bias or on the straight. I like both. the only time I would not wear the matching flashes, is if I was wearing argyle hose to go with the kilt. I mean Honestly....I'm no Jackie Stewart. int: