Welsh Cilt vs. What I Know As A Kilt

**WalesLax** · 10th June 14, 02:07 PM

I have been perusing the boards, but was hoping a firm answer to a question that has begged me for a while. I have had kilts for years. A few years back, I wandered into the Welsh Tartan Center in Cardiff, and found a Welsh Cilt in the tartan of my surname, Roberts, though the Roberts side is French and not Welsh. Regardless, it was an alternative to the "generic" kilts I had; Stewart and Price of Wales being my two "go-to's."

To this day, I really can't tell the difference between a Welsh Cilt and what we generally refer to as a kilt. Is there something I am missing? Is it just the mill it comes from?

Noticing how many Welsh there are on the board, I am looking for some good answers and great conversation!

Rob

**Dundonian.on.Islay** · 10th June 14, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by WalesLax

I have been perusing the boards, but was hoping a firm answer to a question that has begged me for a while. I have had kilts for years. A few years back, I wandered into the Welsh Tartan Center in Cardiff, and found a Welsh Cilt in the tartan of my surname, Roberts, though the Roberts side is French and not Welsh. Regardless, it was an alternative to the "generic" kilts I had; Stewart and Price of Wales being my two "go-to's."

To this day, I really can't tell the difference between a Welsh Cilt and what we generally refer to as a kilt. Is there something I am missing? Is it just the mill it comes from?

Noticing how many Welsh there are on the board, I am looking for some good answers and great conversation!

Rob

As far as I'm aware there's no difference really, I don't think the letter 'K' appears in the Welsh language, so it's substituted with a 'C', though there is a growing range of Welsh tartans, but, don't quote me on that, it's just my understanding

**Tobus** · 10th June 14, 02:18 PM

I believe it's the Welsh tartan that makes it a Welsh kilt (cilt). Otherwise it's the same.

Welsh tartans typically are not like Scottish tartans, in that they don't have the same pattern in both the warp and weft.

**chasem** · 10th June 14, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

I believe it's the Welsh tartan that makes it a Welsh kilt (cilt). Otherwise it's the same.

Welsh tartans typically are not like Scottish tartans, in that they don't have the same pattern in both the warp and weft.

I seem to remember that Welsh tartan material often (always?) comes without the traditional kilt selvedge and will be hemmed. Am I remembering correctly?

**McClef** · 11th June 14, 01:58 AM

Indeed and usually has the Red Dragon or St David's Cross, or both, woven on the front apron on the right hand side.

They tend to be no heavier than 13 oz either.

Cilt is a matter of Welsh orthography, the C being hard and thus pronounced as a K.

The WTC is now only located in Swansea.

**BCAC** · 11th June 14, 02:08 AM

There were some posts around recently saying that the replacement of the K in kilt by a C because, ostensibly, there is no K in Welsh has no real reason to exist because the is no K in gaelic either? Am I remembering these posts correctly?

There really isn't much difference between a Welsh "Cilt" and a Scottish "Kilt". The tartan obviously and the small differences that everyone has pointed out on this thread. I believe that the biggest difference is, as Tobus pointed out, the difference between Warp and Weft.

**RockyR** · 11th June 14, 05:59 AM

The welsh tartans are only available through the Welsh Tartan Centre (and the companies that buy from them). The material is 14 oz, is woven in Wales at the Cumbrian Woolen Mill and has a slightly softer 'hand' to the cloth than most Scottish wool. The cloth comes with a fringed edge, so yes, it must be hemmed.

The Welsh tartans were designed in 2002 and are different from most other tartans in the fact that their warp (threads running horizontally on the kilt) and weft (threads running vertically on the kilt) are usually different, making it unique.

When a kilt is ordered directly from the WTC, they often come with a red dragon or the St. David's flag embroidered on the lower right corner, though you can ask them to keep that off. When you order a kilt from another kiltmaker who makes the kilt from their cloth (i.e. USA Kilts), it will come without the embroidery.

The Welsh Tartan Centre is located in Swansea in the city center (right across the square from "The Dragon Hotel") and it's a great place to visit (and a wonderful TOWN to visit).

**bonnie heather** · 11th June 14, 06:28 AM

Right now I'm working on a 4 yard box pleated kilt in the Powys tartan, which is Welsh. I'm making a narrow hem out of necessity because of the fringed edge of the cloth. The tartan pattern is indeed different warp/weft.

**WalesLax** · 11th June 14, 09:08 AM

Now that you mention it, that is one difference I remember seeing/hearing, though when I got mine, I was given the choice of what I wanted.

**WalesLax** · 11th June 14, 09:15 AM

Warp to Weft - I hadn't realized that, and this is the first I am hearing of it. Thank you for the explanation and Bonnie, thank you for the photo evidence.

Mine is the Roberts tartan, and it doesn't have that issue - the warp and weft are identical. Interestingly, mine does not have the (pardon my lack of correct terminology) "internal lines."

Rob