Assaulted for wearing a kilt last night

[Aussie_Don]

Allen, I was actually at a networking event where intoxication is looked down upon. All parties were entirely sober (I was having soft drinks, in fact).

No means no. Period.

I'm finding this an interesting thread for a number of reasons.

[Intentionally going off on a tangent here]

Am I the only person involved who sees significant parallels with
the way women have been treated over the years? Are we, beacause
of our differentness, (let's face it -- wearing kilts is, at the least,
unusual in the general culture) becoming sensitised to a class of
situations that women have had to deal with for a l-o-n-g time?

If so, this is a good thing -- IMHO. And one that, if it becomes
generally known and accepted, (particularly by the female of
the species) will only add to the appeal of a bloke in a kilt to
women generally. Just saying -- if part of the reason for wearing
the kilt is to declare the I/we are Alpha males and worth knowing
-- this is another point in our favour.

-Don

[ratspike]

86ed means dead, killed, keel hauled or possibly he just meant banned from the establishment.

In the case of a man sexually assaulting a woman in a bar, club, or wherever, I suppose it could mean any of those things.

Like I said, I can definitely appreciate the saucy and the flirty, but there's a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Grabbing a stranger from behind in a dark bar is, honestly, asking for trouble.

The International Wenches Guild knows what's up. This is how it's done.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...k-rules-13098/

[CDNSushi]

The International Wenches Guild knows what's up. This is how it's done.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...k-rules-13098/

Wow! That old thread has got to be one of the most offensive things I've read in a really long time! Both the OP and the ensuing comments condone behaviour which I find reprehensible. The only, and I do mean ONLY redeeming quality contained therein is this sentence:

DONT EVER give a kilt-check without the gentleman's *express* permission.

And I would expand that even further to read: DON'T EVER touch other people without the other person's *express* permission.

Even when I work as a strength trainer at the local YMCA, which often requires correcting body position and placement, (where touching people is expected and more or less required) I must abide by a professional standard and always ASK if I have permission to touch -- even if it's an otherwise innocuous part like a forearm...

It has been said before and I'll say it again. Call it what you will. Some may even be flattered, but any sort of unwanted physical contact from others, be they male or female, IS tantamount to assault, and ought to be treated as such. I am not for double-standards. If you walked up to a random woman and started touching her chest, you would be immediately arrested.

Some things to keep in mind...

Whether someone is male OR female:
- no one is EVER "asking for it" because of what they are or aren't wearing
- never assume that someone thinks, wants, believes <fill in the blank> just because they are a <man/woman>
- no means no
- alcohol is never a valid excuse
- unwanted contact is NEVER okay
- always, always, ALWAYS get consent

[ratspike]

I guess I fail at the internet this morning, and should have read more than the OP in that thread. What I was getting at is that kilt checking without consent is never funny and never okay. As far as I'm concerned it's assault, and that it's a woman doing it to a man doesn't t change anything. Put your hands under my clothing and we're likely to have a really unpleasant exchange.

Racy kilt check at faire is okay in my book, provided it's with consent and not in front of children.

[ASinclair]

I guess I fail at the internet this morning, and should have read more than the OP in that thread. What I was getting at is that kilt checking without consent is never funny and never okay. As far as I'm concerned it's assault, and that it's a woman doing it to a man doesn't t change anything. Put your hands under my clothing and we're likely to have a really unpleasant exchange.

Racy kilt check at faire is okay in my book, provided it's with consent and not in front of children.

I didn't read past the OP in that thread, either. I thought the International Wenches Guild Kilt-check guide was okay.

[CDNSushi]

I'm not really okay with it, as it does the same thing men have been doing to women for ages -- it represents a mindset that ogling, sexualizing, and objectifying people is okay. It's no crime to find another person attractive (or pretty, or handsome, or what-have-you); heaven knows I certainly do -- but the guide linked herein above is little more than institutionalized lechery.

Of course, getting consent is the number one rule, but my point is that the very act of asking or giving consent to be fondled by a stranger represents a mindset and worldview that I would just as soon see disappear entirely. It represents the erroneous mindset that someone wants to receive a certain kind of attention because of what they're wearing. A man wearing a kilt is no more a sign that he wants to be kilt-checked any more than a woman wearing high heels and a mini means she's looking to get picked up. Sartorial choices are just that -- choices. They shouldn't be read into in the way that some (especially those who have been drinking) seem to believe sometimes.

[Manxstralian]

I always adhere to the rule "Touch not, lest ye be touched".

I see nothing wrong with making it obvious that I find someone else attractive, but that is limited to "brief eye contact, smile, look away, leave it at that". The message is clear, but there's no threat, and I'm not interested in manufacturing small talk with a stranger when I'm out with friends. Having said that, I do see more overt ogling going on from women in the 20-30 age group than in my generation. Changing social mores, I suppose.

Cheers,

Cameron

[KentuckyCeltophile]

I haven't had this experience, yet. Then again, I don't go to places or know people who are that crass. The only places I go is church, grocery store, and the occasional restaurant. So, I think it's inappropriate and uninvited no matter the occasion. Maybe just mind the company you keep if you can and the places you go so as to avoid getting assaulted by overt, boisterous women.

hmmm...I wonder if there is a way to boobytrap the hems with an electric shock ?

KC

[t_challa]

I think as kilt wearers we have all experienced this at one time or another. I have to say, it has only happened to me twice. Both times I was in a bar, so I blame the effects of alcohol on the women's lack of decorum. My reaction both times was a friendly but firm retort of not invading my personal space and how would they like it if I tried to lift up their skirt.

The first woman actually admitted she would quite enjoy it if a guy she didn't know tried to lift up her skirt. The second came out with the line "it's a kilt, so it's okay for me to lift it up. that's what kilts are there for".

Fortunately, my reaction and tone was enough to dissuade any further attempts at trying to see what I had on underneath.