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17th June 14, 07:55 AM
#41
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Leatherneck Donald
Being a native of the South, "the" prefaces all of the best illnesses and diseases. "She has the consumpton." "He has the ebola." "I have the rhumatiz"
Likewise, and true. I'd just never heard "the headache" before moving to this particular area of central NC.
Tulach Ard
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17th June 14, 08:18 AM
#42
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Jock Scot
No mud to sling. I think most Scots would probably say for example "He wears the kilt well" , "you wear the kilt well" and so on. I think I do most of the time, no idea why, or even, if its "correct". ![Laughing](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
This is what I have always heard, and typically what I say as well.
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17th June 14, 11:33 AM
#43
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by MacKenzie
Man of the cloth.
Wears the collar.
Gee, that's me and I didn't even think of it!
Rev'd Father Bill White: Mostly retired Parish Priest & former Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair.
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17th June 14, 11:36 AM
#44
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Father Bill
Gee, that's me and I didn't even think of it! ![Smile](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
........
Tulach Ard
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17th June 14, 12:08 PM
#45
To me "the" kilt means a traditional kilt in one's family's tartan (or sept, allied clan, district, or whatever). If I'm wearing a Utilikilt, I'm wearing "a" kilt.
In my travels a Scot would hear my last name and he would often ask "Do ye ever wear the kilt?" I get the feeling though that they typically have one kilt that they wear on special occasions, so it's like me asking the wife "Should I wear the tux?" ...because why would I ever own more than one tux?
("The" wife, because she's special.)
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The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to rodmc7 For This Useful Post:
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17th June 14, 06:16 PM
#46
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Calgacus
I think it's just a minor difference between Scottish grammar and other varieties. We are prone to saying 'wearing the kilt' or 'playing the guitar' or whatever. I don't know the origins of it, I just consider it correct Scottish grammar.
I wouldn't correct anyone for saying it one way or the other, to me it's just a minor curiosity of an academic nature.
This makes total sense. The numerous Englishes around the world have all sorts of things like that.
One example is the English "he was taken to hospital" v American "he was taken to the hospital" (despite the American not referring to any particular hospital).
Here "I play bagpipes" sounds a bit more natural than "I play the bagpipes" but either could be used.
Actually the use of "the" is a fascinating (to me) distinction between two neighboring counties here, Los Angeles County and Orange County (where I live). We have a canyon we call Brea Canyon and a mall called South Coast Plaza but people down here from Los Angeles always say The Brea Canyon and The South Coast Plaza, making them stand out as being outsiders. Likewise they speak of The Valley (short for The San Fernando Valley); if such was here we would leave off the 'the' I'm sure.
This sort of thing makes it obvious that the show purportedly about Orange County called "The O.C." was invented by people in Los Angeles. I've lived here a quarter century and never heard anyone call our county "The O.C." It is simply Orange County.
What we do share with LA is putting 'the' in front of our freeway numbers, something that strikes people from other parts of the USA as strange. We "take the 5 to the 10" etc etc etc. Back east they would "take Interstate 5 to Interstate 10" etc.
About a/the, "I wear kilts" and "do you wear kilts?" sound more natural to me that sticking in either 'a' or 'the'. (Leaving out the article being our Orange County way.)
Now, if I'm taking my daughter to a museum, and haven't decided which one, it's "I'm taking my daughter to some museum" or "I'm taking my daughter to a museum" but if I have decided I would name the museum "I'm taking my daughter to LACMA" (were BTW the magnificent Hugh Montgomery portrait resides). It would never be "I'm taking my daughter to the museum."
Anyhow as you say it's a 'minor curiosity of an academic nature".
Last edited by OC Richard; 17th June 14 at 06:27 PM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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17th June 14, 10:13 PM
#47
It seems to me that the use of the definite article with 'kilt' is often associated with a generic description. Concocted examples of such usages might be:-
" . . . at the Scots' end of the ground, their supporters in the kilt, in all variety of colours and tartan patterns . . . "
"When I get married, I want all the groomsmen and myself wearing the kilt, not tuxedoes or jeans and t-shirts."
Another generic use - "I wear the kilt" - might be intended by the speaker to emphasise that he is usually not seen wearing trousers.
These examples are intended to illustrate situations where there is no reference to a specific kilt. This more generic usage feels more natural to me, but I don't any difficulty whatsoever interpreting other usages.
Grizzled Ian
XMTS teaches much about formal kilt wear, but otherwise,
... the kilt is clothes, what you wear with it should be what you find best suits you and your lifestyle. (Anne the Pleater) "Sometimes, it is better not to know the facts" (Father Bill)
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18th June 14, 01:13 AM
#48
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Grizzled Ian
It seems to me that the use of the definite article with 'kilt' is often associated with a generic description. Concocted examples of such usages might be:-
" . . . at the Scots' end of the ground, their supporters in the kilt, in all variety of colours and tartan patterns . . . "
"When I get married, I want all the groomsmen and myself wearing the kilt, not tuxedoes or jeans and t-shirts."
Another generic use - "I wear the kilt" - might be intended by the speaker to emphasise that he is usually not seen wearing trousers.
These examples are intended to illustrate situations where there is no reference to a specific kilt. This more generic usage feels more natural to me, but I don't any difficulty whatsoever interpreting other usages.
Yes, I think that feels about right to me.
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18th June 14, 07:22 AM
#49
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Grizzled Ian
It seems to me that the use of the definite article with 'kilt' is often associated with a generic description. Concocted examples of such usages might be:-
" . . . at the Scots' end of the ground, their supporters in the kilt, in all variety of colours and tartan patterns . . . "
"When I get married, I want all the groomsmen and myself wearing the kilt, not tuxedoes or jeans and t-shirts."
Another generic use - "I wear the kilt" - might be intended by the speaker to emphasise that he is usually not seen wearing trousers.
These examples are intended to illustrate situations where there is no reference to a specific kilt. This more generic usage feels more natural to me, but I don't any difficulty whatsoever interpreting other usages.
Maybe in Australia they would say that. I wouldn't know, I've never visited. Please allow me to change your phrases to a more usual use of words in my home town. No one would say " . . . at the Scots' end of the ground, their supporters in the kilt, in all variety of colours and tartan patterns . . . " they would be more likely to say " . . . at the Scots' end of the ground, their supporters in their kilts, in all variety of colours and tartan patterns . . . "
They wouldn't say "When I get married, I want all the groomsmen and myself wearing the kilt, not tuxedoes or jeans and t-shirts." either. It would probably be "When I get married, I want all the groomsmen and myself wearing kilts, not tuxedoes or jeans and t-shirts."
Or maybe this is different depending on where you are?
Last edited by BCAC; 18th June 14 at 07:23 AM.
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18th June 14, 04:55 PM
#50
To me it's like having a beard...the beard choses you, you do not choose the beard...
The kilt choses you to wear it...I do not choose the kilt...
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