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18th June 14, 08:28 PM
#51
What about saying, "Wearing me kilt?" Too Liverpool?
Or, "I'll be wearin' the kilt on me self ta daye?" Too Irish?
Or, as I've seen on these boards kilt as a verb: "kilting?"
"To kilt or not to kilt, that is the question." I'm not sure who said that originally, but I think it was Robbie Burns.
(kidding.)
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19th June 14, 10:59 AM
#52
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Grizzled Ian
It seems to me that the use of the definite article with 'kilt' is often associated with a generic description.
After some thought on the subject (and some surprise that it merits multiple pages of discussion), I tend to think that using "the" in front of a normal word is just a way of talking about it in abstract. When we say "the hospital", we are talking about the hospital as an institution, not necessarily a specific place. Sometimes I'll say "I'm going to the house" instead of "I'm going home". I wouldn't say "I'm going to my house", because when I say "the house" it's more an abstract of "home", with a more meaningful connotation.
So I am starting to see how "the kilt" would be a more meaningful way of saying it when Scots (or others) are referring to kilts in general as more than just a physical object. "The kilt" is an institution!
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21st June 14, 04:17 AM
#53
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Tobus
I tend to think that using "the" in front of a normal word is just a way of talking about it in abstract.
Ordinarily 'the' in English is what's called a 'definite article' which is the opposite of talking about things in the abstract. It's used when referring to one specific thing, either because there is only one
"the Pope"
or because a superlative is used
"the tallest building in town"
or to mark a thing which was referred to in earlier conversation
"I saw the man (which we were discussing earlier) go into the building".
To avoid the charge of 'Americanisms' here's a British article about it
https://learnenglish.britishcouncil....finite-article
It does point out some odd exceptions, for example the use with musical instruments. Perhaps the kilt is another! Perhaps your 'institution' theory is correct! Or it's just an example of usage being different in Scotland as was pointed out earlier. The article does point out the use of 'the' when used in an inclusive way, as "the heart pumps blood" meaning "all hearts pump blood".
About 'the hospital' that's an Americanism, because we use it when no specific hospital is being referenced
"the accident victims were taken to the hospital"
when no specific hospital was previously mentioned; in Britain it would be
"the accident victims were taken to hospital"
which could be any one hospital, or indeed multiple hospitals.
Here in Orange County it's odd that we leave off the definite article at times when one would ordinarily be called for, there being only one such thing. The very use of the definite article here that people outside California find odd (using it with specific freeways) is standard English usage.
Last edited by OC Richard; 21st June 14 at 04:20 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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22nd June 14, 11:03 AM
#54
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by OC Richard
The very use of the definite article here that people outside California find odd (using it with specific freeways) is standard English usage.
hmmm... we do this too. We would say take "the 401" to the US border and then get on "the I-95" and Eastern Canada is a long way from Orange County, CA.
Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
“Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.
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22nd June 14, 11:52 AM
#55
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Nathan
hmmm... we do this too. We would say take "the 401" to the US border and then get on "the I-95" and Eastern Canada is a long way from Orange County, CA.
Interesting. Something of a diversion (no pun intended!) but it is an example where the definite article is used optionally. When I was in the UK, I would always use it before a road name, as in "The M42", "The A1", "The Ring Road" etc. But when I worked in California, it was almost always omitted (among my colleagues) as in "Take 101 to San Jose" or "Take Lawrence to Central" etc. Here in Australia, it's a bit of a mixture, we refer to "The Mount Lindesey Highway" but "Beaudesert Road". The interesting thing here is that these are different parts of the same road, which run into each other.
To get back to the original discussion on "The Kilt", I think it's something of a mix of the generic, as proposed by GrizzledIan" and the abstract, as put forward by Tobus. I think "The Kilt" refers to the class of items known as kilts, rather than any specific kilt, like Tobus' house (the/my). Perhaps akin to "The Cloth" in the ecclesiastical usage?
Regards, Sav.
"The Sun Never Sets on X-Marks!"
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22nd June 14, 12:16 PM
#56
An interesting article in the Summer edition of "The Patriot", the magazine of the Scottish American Military Society (SAMS) entitled Kilting Up, Fitting and Wearing. Throughout the article the kilt is referred to primarily as the kilt, but on occasion as a kilt.
It goes on to state the "absolutely correct" order of dressing from one scottish kilt-maker.
leg dressing - hose, garter, knots, shoes (my question - garter knots?)
shirt
kilt
sporran
tie
jacket
anything else that is left over
proud U.S. Navy vet
Creag ab Sgairbh
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22nd June 14, 01:00 PM
#57
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by sailortats
An interesting article in the Summer edition of "The Patriot", the magazine of the Scottish American Military Society (SAMS) entitled Kilting Up, Fitting and Wearing. Throughout the article the kilt is referred to primarily as the kilt, but on occasion as a kilt.
It goes on to state the "absolutely correct" order of dressing from one scottish kilt-maker.
leg dressing - hose, garter, knots, shoes (my question - garter knots?)
shirt
kilt
sporran
tie
jacket
anything else that is left over
I agree that it's easiest to put do the leg stuff right to the shoes before donning the kilt, though it doesn't really matter. I would, however, find it awkward to put on my waist belt or waistcoat after my jacket.
Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
“Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.
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22nd June 14, 05:56 PM
#58
Whassa matter you? you dunna like the look of a waistcoat on top of your jacket?
proud U.S. Navy vet
Creag ab Sgairbh
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22nd June 14, 06:20 PM
#59
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by sailortats
Whassa matter you? you dunna like the look of a waistcoat on top of your jacket?
He just doesn't want to give away what his superhero uniform looks like.
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22nd June 14, 10:38 PM
#60
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by OC Richard
Here in Orange County it's odd that we leave off the definite article at times when one would ordinarily be called for, there being only one such thing. The very use of the definite article here that people outside California find odd (using it with specific freeways) is standard English usage.
Actually, that is only a Southern California usage Richard. Here in the North, that pattern is a dead giveaway that someone is from Southern California. Here in the North we would just say "Take 80 East to Reno to see Richrail wear The Kilt"
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