MOD Pipers' dirk v Indian-made dirk

[OC Richard]

Many of the made-in-India dirks bear little resemblance to their Scottish originals, but the made-in-India replicas of the standard MOD Pipers' dirk are fairly close.

I recently got, on Ebay, a 1986 MOD Pipers' dirk and here it is alongside an Indian one.

Both have carved wood handles, steel blades, chrome fitments, and leather-covered wooden sheaths.

I don't know who made the MOD dirk. I don't know how to interpret the markings. If any of you can help it would be appreciated!

Here you can see the more elegant, more traditional, shape of the handle on the MOD dirk (at bottom)



closeup of the handles



the backside of the handles. You can see INDIA marked on one blade, the curious military etched markings on the other



Here are the MOD markings: the usual Broad Arrow, some mysterious numbers, 1986 (presumably the year), and the letter H in a diamond.



Each dirk has a crown at the top. Curiously, the MOD dirk, presumably made in 1986, has the pre-1953 "Kings" crown (at left)



I don't know if it shows clearly, but the MOD scabbard (at bottom) has a flat face, the Indian dirk a curved face.

[plaid preacher]

Richard, the "msyterious series of numbers" is the last part of the NATO Stock No. for the dirk. In the British and Canadian militaries (and I presume in the US as well, since the US is part of NATO) all equipment has a NATO Stock No. for common reference.

I am assuming that the H in the diamond is the makers mark, but I might be wrong.

[Ron Abbott]

136-7275 is just the Ministry of Defence's stock number for the dirk. 1986 is probably the date and you're already aware that the arrow pointing up is on everything the MOD has including sheets of toilet paper.

As for the 'H' I have no idea.

The ones I've seen made by (Henry) Wilkinsons had the company motif and the name on the blade. Pooley Swords make them as well and in the distant past other makers included Fraser Ross, R&HB Kirkwood and Robert T Mole and Son/s, however that's far too long ago for this one.

[Ron Abbott]

If you do find out....please post and let us know the answer!

I went surfing the internet this morning to try and find answer without success, however I did come across another dirk, albeit Scots Guards, but with the 1986 and the H in diamond on the blade. Here's the link:-

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...ds-Pipers-Dirk

Doesn't take it any further unfortunately but might be of some interest.

You could always post on swordforum.com and see what replies come back? They seem to be knowledgeable in such matters.

[Ron Abbott]

and another with the H in a diamond....a commando knife this time:-

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/...es-Knife/page3

[OC Richard]

Many thanks Ron!

That Scots Guards dirk with nearly identical markings is very interesting!

Whoever "Diamond H" was (as we would call them, out here in the West, if that were a particular ranch's cattle-brand) they were obviously supplying dirks to the Army in 1986.

Offtopic, nearby here there's a town called Diamond Bar, built on the land of the former Diamond Bar Ranch. Cool that these old brands can end up as city names! Two local schools play a match each year, the winner of which gets possession of the actual branding iron
http://walnuthighschoolfootball.com/...game-this-week

I still wonder why a dirk made in 1986 would have the so-called Kings Crown on it. They're usually very careful to change the crowns on badges &c. Not that I'm complaining! Because I'll wear this dirk with my World Wars style kit.

Here's a neat article about the various crowns used on British military insignia

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.co...RDNANCE/28.htm

[Ron Abbott]

Or maybe 'H' didn't supply....?

Perhaps that's the individual inspector's mark as someone on the other forum suggested? Seems a bit of a difference in time though between the commando dagger and the dirk.

The only 'H' the springs to mind is Hamilton and Inches of Edinburgh when it comes to silverware but I wouldn't for a second think that they would have anything to do with mass produced dirk blades, so I'd rule that out!

[OC Richard]

A kind person has told me that the diamond-H maker's mark is

F. E. and J. R. Hopkinson Limited. Cutlery and Tool Manufacturers. Trimils Works, London Road, Sheffield

(recently listed at Scotland Road, Sheffield)

This site gives markings found on British bayonets; scroll down to see the diamond-H

http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/brit_...ml#markings-gb

I found this information online:

J.Adams Ltd (Sheffield Knives) is a family business which has been making knives for six generations. They are also the parent company for three other long established brands F.E. and J.R. Hopkinson Ltd, established 14 June 1944; John Nowill and Sons Ltd, whose corporate name was granted by the Cutlers Company of Hallamshire on 27 April 1700 and Austin McGillivray and Co. They make hunting knives, throwing knives, bowie knives, commando knives, pocket knives, military knives, British Army pocket knives, Scottish knives, Scottish dirks, seamen’s knives, folding knives, clasp knives, safety knives, scrapers, crowbars, wrecking bars, punches, wedges, cold chisels, chandlers tools, rubber workers tools, painter’s knives, palette knives, kitchen knives, cook’s knives, butcher’s knives, trade knives, and scissors. They state on their website “we guarantee that all our knives are Sheffield made”.

[Ron Abbott]

Thanks! In all the years I've looked at militaria, bagpiping related accoutrements etc. I've never heard of that company!

That site with the markings is a great find!