Non Clergy, wearing Clergy Tartan?

[JonathanB]

Isn't there a difference in wearing a clergy tartan in Scotland, where some will know its significance, and wearing it in America as Joseph is considering?

As a matter of interest, was the clergy tartan restricted to ministers of the Kirk of Scotland, or could Roman Catholic and Episcopal clergy wear it as well? If it was intended to let laity know there was a cleric present, then a good Presbyterian might well be fed up to find the kilt wearer as a servant of the Scarlet Woman of Rome, and equally a pious Catholic would want an authentic (in their terms) priest and not a protty minister. (I would never use those terms myself.)

[plaid preacher]

Isn't there a difference in wearing a clergy tartan in Scotland, where some will know its significance, and wearing it in America as Joseph is considering?

As a matter of interest, was the clergy tartan restricted to ministers of the Kirk of Scotland, or could Roman Catholic and Episcopal clergy wear it as well? If it was intended to let laity know there was a cleric present, then a good Presbyterian might well be fed up to find the kilt wearer as a servant of the Scarlet Woman of Rome, and equally a pious Catholic would want an authentic (in their terms) priest and not a protty minister. (I would never use those terms myself.)

Jonathan, I don't think it matters whether you are in Scotland or the US. IF you are wearing a kilt, people will ask you about it. "Are you Scottish?" "What tartan is it?" "Is that you clan tartan?" ... or in this case "Oh, are you a minister?" At which point, you need to have an answer/explanation.

As for the Clergy tartan being reserve for Presbyterians, it may have had that association a century or two ago, I'm not certain. I believe my Anglican brother Fr Bill has posted a picture of the present Archbishop of Cantebury wearing a clergy tartan scarf.

[Father Bill]

The Plaid Preacher is correct as far as I know; there's no limitation to any denomination, or likely religion - it's not a specifically Christian tartan, so there's no reason an Imam or a Rabbi couldn't wear it so long for the rabbi as it didn't mix types of thread - a Mosaic law limitation, not a tartan-based one.

He's also correct that you're likely going to get questions that might become uncomfortable or confuse folks. As Matt Newsome's article (referenced above) asks, would you then wear a clerical collar or cassock?

[Joseph]

In my experience, when people ask about the tartan I'm wearing, it provides the opportunity to tell them something about myself and not just my outfit.

I would therefore only wear a tartan I am solidly connected to. I currently only own MacDonald tartans, but I would wear the Maple Leaf Tartan - I'm Canadian, the Nova Scotia Tartan - I'm from Nova Scotia, the Cape Breton Tartan - I'm from Cape Breton or the tartan of my particular religious denomination.


Consider this, when someone says, "What tartan is that?" and you say, "The Clergy Tartan" and they logically ask "Are you a Clergyman?" and you say, "Well...um..not really...but I'm a devout Christian who looks for opportunities to Minister." will you enjoy that exchange? Will they perceive you a poseur of sorts?


I like the tradition that the tartan selected tells you something about the wearer but that's all it is; a tradition. I'm sure you're not going to get smoked by some angry vicars in a drive by...

I am certainly very connected to my Faith. Every bit as devout as those ordained. That is why I have so many friends who are ordained. But for the body to function, we cannot all be the head. Some of us must be hands and feet.

If someone asked me about a clergy tartan, "Are you a clergyman or a priest?" my answer would be more like "Not ordained, but I am actively involved in ministry" and this has opened the door for me to now show them my devotion by trying to continue conversation about the Gospel of Christ. Finding out their beliefs, and maybe straightening out a few common misbeliefs about Christianity. This scenerio with an actual Pastor or Priest may also open an opportunity for me to assist him. My ministry is more of a (servant's team) than devotional preaching / teaching. So maybe such a Pastor / Priest needs help setting up a tent, chairs, podium, altar, communion, or ushering for a festival service. I am deffinatly the guy he wants to run into. Regardless of domination. Additionally if a stranger were to ask me "My mom is sick, will you pray with me for her?" Again I am the right guy.

As for connections. If I am American, and I love Canada or Scotland, couldn't I wear a huge Maple Leaf T shirt or St Andrews cross? (not arguing, that statement was just for perspective)

[Father Bill]

Yes, you can wear any of those, and indeed you seem bent and determined to do so, which makes the discussion a bit more difficult. Your point of view will be welcomed in some denominations and by some clergy more than others. I for one, while welcoming your devotion to God and the church, would wonder about your honesty in such a situation and that might limit the ways in which I would employ you.

[Joseph]

He's also correct that you're likely going to get questions that might become uncomfortable or confuse folks. As Matt Newsome's article (referenced above) asks, would you then wear a clerical collar or cassock?

Absolutely not. This is garb specific to Catholicism. These Priests have earned the right to identify themselves uniquely in their order. Which is why I asked the original question about "non ordained" wearing a clergy tartan. If it is clergy excusive, I would not want to disrespect their / your position as that leader of the flock. But I AM secure in place in the ministry of the Gospel. I am a disciple of Christ and I don't need a tartan to reassure me of it.

Understand that in many protestant evangelical churches, active church members are just as important in spreading the Gospel as the Pastor, though their roles are very different. It is not the Pastors job to win all the new believers. Nor to walk them all through the sinner's prayer. Shepards don't make sheep. Sheep make sheep. We teach that the lady who cleans the toilets is just as important as the Deacons and that THAT is her form of ministry service called on by God to serve his people. All parts of the body.

[rlloyd]

It would seem the consensus of the forum is: Catholicism in the camp of "only for ordained Clergy" and Protestants in the camp of "open and free to all Christians", with the non-affiliated being split.
Before this conversation breaks Rule 5, maybe we should close it?

[Father Bill]

That will definitely depend on your definition of "Protestant" but we're getting very close to the edge of Rules 5 & 2.

[Joseph]

Yes, you can wear any of those, and indeed you seem bent and determined to do so, which makes the discussion a bit more difficult. Your point of view will be welcomed in some denominations and by some clergy more than others. I for one, while welcoming your devotion to God and the church, would wonder about your honesty in such a situation and that might limit the ways in which I would employ you.

You misunderstand Father. You were first to respond to my question so you had the earliest chance to influence the direction of the discussion. I am deffinatly not bent and determined to wear a clergy kilt regardless what is said. That's the reason I asked about it and didn't just got buy one. I've also only within the last 3 weeks JUST started wearing kilts and I've already bought 3. So my wife will begin to criticize my spending if I already bought more. It'll be a bit before (if) I order a clergy tartan. At this point it's just discussion.

Father Bill, you said you would question my honesty. I am very honest. Sometimes brutally honest. I know tact is an area I need God's help. I believe the Holy Spirit guides God's servants together as he calls them. If you chose to limit the ways you would employ me, it's really your loss. If you pray for help with the harvest and turn away or stifle the laborers God sends, that is on you.

I don't mean to make the discussion difficult Father, I was enjoying the viewpoints and I learned a lot about tartans in this one thread.

[Jock Scot]

Joseph.

I know very little about who in which team can wear this or that and care little about it. I also have no doubt to your personal calling. However your thinking over this "Tartan Aspect", just confirms to people like me our severe reservations about exactly what you stand for. Is that what you want? I am not sure your peers would be too impressed? I dont know what you will decide and that is absolutely your choice. But--------