Wrapping the Braveheart kilt

[Calgacus]

Imagine the upper portion of the plaid hanging down prior to being arranged; then take one corner and take it behind to the opposite shoulder and it will fold back on itself creating a double edge.

Yes, I understood that, and at first thought that this could account for arrangement at the figure's left side, however having thought about it further, I doubt it can account for that either. The only way to demonstrate/settle this will be to attempt to recreate it, so I'm happy to agree to disagree until I can find the time to get hold of some sheets, and maybe a tailor's dummy.

[Calgacus]

If we go back to the original posters original question.

Kilts made for the stage and screen often use what we in the kilt world call "the false plaid". It is actually made from two different pieces of cloth.

Here is just one example of a false plaid.
On the bottom is a normal kilt.
Then there is a second piece shaped like a triangle with a separate waistband.
This second piece is fastened around the waist and the end brought up to the shoulder and fastened with a pin.



This is a very cost effective way to give the look of an older kilt. You only need a regular kilt and another piece of additional fabric, something for a waistband and some velcro.

I really like that look, Steve, it's rather similar to the effect in this link:-

http://kiltmaker.blogspot.co.uk/2008...ats-plaid.html

...though Matt's version is maybe a bit more ostentatious, with more cloth being involved.

It's something I'm going to be trying with my upcoming MacDuff 1800 kilt.

[Pleater]

The fellows have (as usual) grabbed the ball and run with it - the Braveheart costume is not a great kilt, it is a small kilt with what is usually the under apron extended and worn uppermost. the long end is thrown back over the shoulder.

It wasn't authentic for Braveheart, not is it right for the Scottish play, because it isn't anything which was ever worn as clothing in the real world, but it should not be difficult to make as costume.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Kylahullu]

....
- the Braveheart costume is not a great kilt, it is a small kilt with what is usually the under apron extended and worn uppermost. the long end is thrown back over the shoulder.
....
Anne the Pleater :ootd:

As Anne says, a picture and a description here and here.

[OC Richard]

As for the portrait of William Cunning, Piper to Lord Grant, 1715, yes it's a portrait and could be factually incorrect, but it shows the material to be apparently doubled in two areas as shown below

I have a fairly large print of that portrait in front of me now, and it appears to me that the plaid has a plain red binding around the entire edge, and that it's quite clearly doubled. (The accompanying portrait shows pale green binding, used on Army kilts till the present day.)

I would accept the portrait as accurate. How on earth could an artist invent such a specific minor detail? The artist is obviously trying his best to depict what's in front of his eyes.

Lest we forget, different periods of art place importance on different things, and portraits of that period put great stress on rendering clothing in minute detail. And that portrait has a wealth of such, from each lace rosette on the jacket being meticulously rendered, to even showing with great accuracy bagpipe's sheepskin bag! An artist couldn't make up a bag that is the precise colour of sheepskin and even has the seam (where the leather is sewn) accurately rendered; once again it's obvious that the artist is doing everything in his power to paint exactly what he sees. (There are exceptions! It was the style of the period to minimise anything in the face, and thus the bagpipe's blowpipe's mouthpiece is made impossibly thin. Also it was the style of the period to depict the fingers as being thin and delicate; I doubt if the piper actually used his fingertips on the chanter.)

I've drawn careful diagrams of the pipes, which are very important in piping history, being the earliest clear depiction of the Great Highland Bagpipe. My dream is to one day have a set made that looks like that.

[IsaacW]

I've drawn careful diagrams of the pipes, which are very important in piping history, being the earliest clear depiction of the Great Highland Bagpipe. My dream is to one day have a set made that looks like that.

If you ever do, I would love to seen them. I have a piper friend that worked with me at the same historic site that did a lot of piping and research on piping and dress at that site. He would also love seeing them!! His current pipes are based off a set that were early 1800ish played by a MacKay that was at Waterloo (IIRC) and may have been the same piper (if not a relative) as played for the fur company here in North America that was HQ'd were we worked.

IW

[Calgacus]

I have a fairly large print of that portrait in front of me now, and it appears to me that the plaid has a plain red binding around the entire edge, and that it's quite clearly doubled. (The accompanying portrait shows pale green binding, used on Army kilts till the present day.)

I would accept the portrait as accurate. How on earth could an artist invent such a specific minor detail? The artist is obviously trying his best to depict what's in front of his eyes.

Lest we forget, different periods of art place importance on different things, and portraits of that period put great stress on rendering clothing in minute detail. And that portrait has a wealth of such, from each lace rosette on the jacket being meticulously rendered, to even showing with great accuracy bagpipe's sheepskin bag! An artist couldn't make up a bag that is the precise colour of sheepskin and even has the seam (where the leather is sewn) accurately rendered; once again it's obvious that the artist is doing everything in his power to paint exactly what he sees. (There are exceptions! It was the style of the period to minimise anything in the face, and thus the bagpipe's blowpipe's mouthpiece is made impossibly thin. Also it was the style of the period to depict the fingers as being thin and delicate; I doubt if the piper actually used his fingertips on the chanter.)

I've drawn careful diagrams of the pipes, which are very important in piping history, being the earliest clear depiction of the Great Highland Bagpipe. My dream is to one day have a set made that looks like that.

Just to be clear, I conceded that the portrait could be inaccurate, but I believe it to be accurate.

As for the chalice-topped pipes, I remember Barnaby Brown playing a set made by Julian Goodacre, if I remember correctly.

[OC Richard]

Barnaby Brown's pipes are a reproduction (by Julian Goodacre) of the so-called Waterloo drones, thought to date to the mid-18th century, and rather different in design from earlier Highland pipes.

I put that offtopic pipe stuff into a separate thread in the 'music' forum.

[Calgacus]

Ah, I see! Well I hope you one day get the chance to have them made. When you do, post a video of yourself playing them on here banana-with-bagpipes-smiley-emoticon.gif