Gordon sett size

[Benning Boy]

Just going from memory here, but as I recall one of the first known tailored kilts, dating from the very late 1700s, was one from the Gordon Highlanders. The sett is said to be small, which allowed for many pleats in a short length of tartan. Does anyone know, what is the sett size in that kilt? How small is it?

[figheadair]

Approximately 8.33 inches per full repeat.

[Benning Boy]

Thanks, Peter. That's about an average sett size. I had the impression it was much smaller. I'll have to go back through my reading and see where I got that idea.

[figheadair]

Here's the kilt; 3 yds and 2 inches with 21 pleats, selvedge to sevedge cloth and no apron tailoring.



The cloth is Wilsons' Fine Plaidsmaterial and appears to be their count for the 24 Reed, 6 half setts with yellow silk. The 1819 gives five counts for this quality giving a sett size ranging from 5 - 12.5 inches.

[Benning Boy]

Fascinating. Counting the repeats in the picture, and comparing it to tartans I have, it's really not so small after all. I just had the idea it might have been quite a bit smaller than average.

[OC Richard]

Remember, though, that the "full repeat" on the Black Watch tartan, and tartans based on the Black Watch tartan, have a "full repeat" which is twice as big as the apparent repeat to a casual viewer.

In other words the apparent repeat would go from yellow line to yellow line, yet that is actually only half the full repeat, due to the distinctive Black Watch alternating "double track" motif: every other blue block has a double black line in its centre, every other blue block has a pair of double black lines at the outside borders.

So, if I'm taking Peter's comment literally, that Gordon kilt is 4.165 inches between yellow stripes, far smaller than 20th century Gordon military kilts, which I believe are at least 8 inches between yellow stripes for a full repeat of at least 16 inches.

Here:

[figheadair]

In other words the apparent repeat would go from yellow line to yellow line, yet that is actually only half the full repeat, due to the distinctive Black Watch alternating "double track" motif: every other blue block has a double black line in its centre, every other blue block has a pair of double black lines at the outside borders.

So, if I'm taking Peter's comment literally, that Gordon kilt is 4.165 inches between yellow stripes, far smaller than 20th century Gordon military kilts, which I believe are at least 8 inches between yellow stripes for a full repeat of at least 16 inches.

Just about Richard. Because of the different proportions of the 2/4 blue grounds there is actually a slight difference depending on whether one measures Y to Y across the 2K stripes or across the 4K stripes - 4.15 or 4.3 respectively. Interesting visually as the eye is drawn to the yellow but from a weaving/recording perspective this is irrelevant as the yellow is not a pivot. Measuring in either direction from the true pivots will always give the same distance - 8.44 in the case of the 1819 count for 6 half setts.

The 20th century kilt cloth had a sett size closer to the 1819 count for Officers' plaids in which the yellow stripes were roughly 7.7 inches apart. So, the old kilt's sett is small by comparison with that worn latterly by the military but not in a civilian setting.