Information required re. Grant crest & motto.

[Micric]

Hello Rick,

Do I know you from somewhere else,..........BMF?
Don't worry, I'm not a newcomer to old arms.
A bit of linseed to feed the wood, and that's about it.

All the best,
Richard.

Rammer was missing, but I did make one with an exposed worm. (Purple-heart, like a good few of the originals were.)

[ThistleDown]

Perfect original placement, Richard. The subject was heraldry as you posted. With your superb pics it now falls more correctly into this sub-forum. I hope that you and everyone else will share as much as you can on this remarkable bit of touchable 18C Central Highland history.

[Micric]

Rex,

With your encouragement, I will add a bit more re. the most likely candidate for ownership.
Before I do though, if anyone has any information whatsoever I would be very pleased to hear from you!

Below is some more information, The source is "Electric Scotland", "A History of Moray & Nairn Chapter 1V, County Families Of Moray and Nairn"


"Though Sir James Grant was alive at the breaking out of the Rebellion of
1745, it was his son Sir Ludovick (1767-1773) who controlled the action of
the clan through all that difficult time. In spite of many temptations, and
still more difficulties, the Grants adhered to their traditionary policy of
loyalty to the Government in possession. And though they had more than once
occasion to complain of the way in which they were treated by King George’s
officers, their steadfastness to the Hanoverian cause was never for a moment
in doubt.
Ludovick Grants first intimation of the Rising was contained in a letter
which he received from Robert Craigie of Glemloick, the then Lord Advocate
of Scotland. It was dated the 5th August 1745, and it informed him that “the
Pretender’s eldest son ”had embarked“ near to Nantz, in Bretagne, on board a
French ship of 64 guns,” attended with “another of 25 guns, having on board
70 gentlemen guards and 300 volunteers, with arms and ammunition, with a
design to land in Scotland, where it was expected he would be joined by the
Highlanders.” Mr Grant was requested to keep a sharp look-out, and endeavour
to discover if there were any motions in the Highlands in consequence of
these reports. The information was somewhat exaggerated, but there was a
solid basis of truth in its contents. Before it was written Charles Edward
had been already twelve days on Scottish soil. On the 23d July he had landed
after a long and tedious voyage of over a month, on the secluded little
island of Eriskay, one of the Hebrides, between Barra and South Uist, and he
was now in the Moidart district of Inverness-shire. A few days later Sir
James Grant received a letter from the Prince himself, dated Kinlochiel,
August 22, 1745. In that letter, which was the same as he addressed to other
heads of clans, the Prince, after remarking that Sir James could not be
ignorant of his having arrived in Scotland, of his having set up the royal
standard, and of his firm resolution to stand by those who would stand by
him, expressed the hope that he would see Sir James “among the most forward
” The laird, without unsealing the letter, handed it to the Marquis of
Tweed-dale, then Secretary of State. Meantime, until the clan was actually
called out by the Government, he advised his son to remain passive, only
taking up arms if their own lands were in danger".

[416 Rigby]

BMF? Not sure what that is, sorry.

[Micric]

Good morning Rick,

BMF is another forum, and on it is another "Rigby" It appears no relationship to yourself!

Re. Clan Grant;

I found another site last night, an archive of letters to and from the Chiefs of Grant over a very long period.
Riveting read and spent too long at it!
Said letters were a mix of personal letters, re. marriages, betrothals, deaths, politics, and intelligence reports for the times of the /15 & '45.....to how to salt pork, and what the new name should be for a black servant.
Fortunately, the letters have all been typed out, but the spelling is original and I mean original!!

A bit more re. Grants and Culloden, from the source named in my last post;

"Shortly after, the battle began. There was one heroic charge of the Highland
clans in the teeth of a blinding hailstorm. They succeeded in breaking the
first rank of the enemy. But the galling fire of Cumberland’s rear rank and
of that of a strong body of men under Colonel Wolf, stationed en
potence—that is to say, in flank—was too much for them, and in a few minutes
the Highlanders lay dead in piles three and four deep.
Such was the battle of Culloden ; and such was the end of an enterprise
which at first appeared likely to change the history of the kingdom. The
Hanoverian succession had escaped, but it had escaped almost by a miracle.
Amidst all “the distemper of the times,” in spite of repeated temptations,
Ludovick Grant had been able to maintain the loyalty of his clan. The Grants
had taken no prominent part in the struggle, but they had been very useful
in preserving order within their own district, and in lending a moral, and
even at times an actual, support to the Government. Still, Ludovick Grant
had done little deserving of any special recognition at its hands, and in
fact he received no other reward for his services than thanks.
On the death of his father, Sir James, in 1747, Ludovick Grant succeeded to
the family estates, and also to the baronetcy in terms of Queen Anne's
re-grant of 1704. He resigned his seat in Parliament, which he had held for
twenty years, in 1761, and died at Castle Grant on the 18th March 1773,
after an illness of only eight days."

The above is the shortest version of the battle I have ever read!

Richard.

[clanbadge]

If the pistol belonged to someone besides the Grant Chief it should have the belt and buckle symbolizing adherence to the Chief. A Clan Chief does not use the belt and buckle when displaying the Crest.

[MacRob]

Just stumbled across this post. That is a beautiful pistol, very well-made and undoubtedly dates from the early 18th c. As to maker, my personal belief is that it was made by James or Samuel Lowe of London. The London proof marks are one reason and the fine silver mountings are another. The gun is clearly English in architecture. James Lowe is listed in Merwyn Carey's book as working in London in 1730, no range of dates given. Also listed is Samuel Lowe, of London, working from 1730 - 1780 and apparently known for silver mounted pistols with lion mask butt caps. If the butt cap of the pistol could be seen it might lead to a more firm identity of the maker. This is, of course, general information but it helps narrow the maker down a bit. The Grants seem to have been gun fanciers or outright collectors, depending on your interpretation of their armoury. They had quite a few Scottish National long guns at one time, more than any other family.

[MacRob]

If the pistol belonged to someone besides the Grant Chief it should have the belt and buckle symbolizing adherence to the Chief. A Clan Chief does not use the belt and buckle when displaying the Crest.

That is a relatively recent convention and has no real bearing on heraldic markings on pistols, etc. going back nearly 300 years.

[Micric]

Just stumbled across this post. That is a beautiful pistol, very well-made and undoubtedly dates from the early 18th c. As to maker, my personal belief is that it was made by James or Samuel Lowe of London. The London proof marks are one reason and the fine silver mountings are another. The gun is clearly English in architecture. James Lowe is listed in Merwyn Carey's book as working in London in 1730, no range of dates given. Also listed is Samuel Lowe, of London, working from 1730 - 1780 and apparently known for silver mounted pistols with lion mask butt caps. If the butt cap of the pistol could be seen it might lead to a more firm identity of the maker. This is, of course, general information but it helps narrow the maker down a bit. The Grants seem to have been gun fanciers or outright collectors, depending on your interpretation of their armoury. They had quite a few Scottish National long guns at one time, more than any other family.

Good morning MacRob,

Thank you for your thoughts on this pistol.
I am sorry if the photos are not too clear, but the mounts are in Brass, not silver.
Having said that, I still believe the pistol is not a mere 'livery weapon' made for the use of coachmen, servants etc, as such weapons are normally very plain.

It is interesting you too think the maker possibly James Lowe. (I mentioned this maker in previous page/s.)
In "Gunmaker's of London", James is listed as, "Apprenticed to John Brooke, 1717, Free of Gunmaker's Co, 1724, Gunsmith, Cannon Row, Westminster, 1749, Last ref. 1753."
What I find fascinating, Rob, is that both Sir James Grant,& his son, Sir Ludovick, (Lewie) were both MP's for their home district, and spent a lot of time in London Sitting in Parliament. Now! Cannon Row, (Where Ja's Lowe had his shop), is just across the road from the Houses of Parliament,...on the N. side of Westminster bridge! It is just a matter of crossing the road, and you are there.
What could be handier than having a gun-shop in very close walking distance? (!)
Re the butt-cap;
I'm sorry if there are no pictures of this part. I will attach one for you.
Said butt-cap is a grotesque mask, as was very common.
Narrowing down a maker by the furniture used can Sometimes be done, as for instance in the case of Benjamin Griffin. In his case, he uses furniture on occasion not known to have been used by any other maker.
Unfortunately this does not always apply, as many gunmakers bought their furniture from specialists in its production, (Like Moses Brent) so we can see identical fittings on the works of, for instance, William Bailes, Ben & Jos. Griffin, and even later on Jno Twigg's work.

I think I mentioned earlier somewhere, that the Grants (Particularly Lewie) spent most of the remainder of his life paying off debts incurred during the '45.
This May have bitten into their gun -collecting a bit!....to the extent of having some guns mounted in brass?? Of course, for holster pistols, brass is very practical.

I would be pleased to know more about any further arms owned at one time by the Grants, Rob. I did not know they had such a collection.
Was it larger than the collection at Blair Castle?

Thanks again Rob,

Richard.

[Micric]

MacRob,

Here is a photo of the butt-cap, It appears to have been used as a hammer!

DSCN0923.JPGDSCN0958.JPGDSCN0966.JPG

All the best,
Richard.

Ps, made a rammer for him...