Information required re. Grant crest & motto.

[MacRob]

`Thank you for the interesting reply. Photos, especially when posted online, can be deceiving and the mounts on your gun did look like silver to me. Thanks for the correction.

James Lowe is an obvious choice given the time frame in which he worked and the fact that this is clearly an English-made gun. Your comment about the location of the Lowe gun making business and its proximity to Parliament is interesting and certainly gives credence to James Lowe as the maker.

My comments regarding the Grant armory relate to the Scottish National long gun. Only 28 of these guns survive and, interestingly enough, eight of them were in the armory of the Earls of Seafield at Castle Grant. These guns were made in Scotland by a handful of smiths. The reason for their rarity has been regularly discussed and many theories offered, ranging from confiscation and destruction during the Jacobite Rebellions to small production numbers. The latter is my belief. Many of the guns are very ornate and clearly hunting firearms as they were too decorated for military use, unless you wanted your very expensive long gun to rust or be broken from use on the battlefield. These guns varied slightly in style but all sported a variation of what is referred to as a "paddle butt" stock or "herren butt." I have attached a photo of one of my reproduction Scottish National guns.

Thank you again for the reply. If you come up with more information please post it here.
Brass Gun 1.jpg

[Micric]

And in turn, Thank You for an interesting reply!

As the Grants remained close supporters of the Government, it adds weight to your suggestion that the lack of Scottish national guns is because of low production, rather than confiscation, etc.
I believe this to be the case. Also, as many Lairds spent time in London, they would be familiar with London fashions, including firearms.
It is interesting to note that these 'national' arms are from an earlier period, probably before the mould was set in London!

When you say, your reproduction, do you mean as in ownership, or did you make it?
Very nice indeed and very typical!

Richard.

[MacRob]

I bought it, and three others from the maker. I also have a 16th c. fishtail butt pistol made by the same gun stocker. The Grants were not, even though government supporters, exempt from the proscription of arms after the '45, but in actuality many of the loyal clans, and especially their leadership, were not suppressed in regard to weaponry. This would account for the survival of so many of these guns in their hands but low output is still, IMHO, the main reason for the scarcity.

[Micric]

Rob,

Maybe I could PM you, to see the other arms you have that are not pertinent to this thread?
Though a bit short of photos, I have a few I have made over the years, (Flintlock/matchlock) and could send you some via email if you so wished.

Grant;
I found a vast amount of family letters/papers to and from the Grants at this time, and it appears they were crying out for muskets in the rebellion, and Lewie refused to call out his men until they Got muskets. Logic would dictate that loyal militia would be used as a policing force in and after the rebellion was over, so likely there were arrangements for such to keep their arms.

Re disarming, the following sounds very familiar! ...and is from one of the above mentioned letters, and was from the period just after the '15;

Excerpt from a letter by Simon, Lord Lovat, to Sir James Grant re. Orders to
disarm the Highlands;

" Severall persons are afraid in this country that there is a design to get
a severe Act of Parliament to disarm the Highlands again.
We have had too many of them already, which did hurt to our country very
much, for we gave up our arms freely and frankly, and the thieves and
robbers
in the West Highlands keep alwayes the best of their arms to this hour ; and
if there were Twenty Acts of Parliament they would still do the same, for
they would keep their arms in
The hills and woods, and we only would bear the burden and be the slaves of
a new Act of Parliament.
I beg, if you think it proper, that you may say a word of this to our
patron, The Earl of Hay, and then let him do in it as he thinks proper, for
he will judge of it better
than we can."

All the best,

Richard.

[MacRob]

That would be fine. I would be glad to share with you.

That is an interesting letter. Of course there were disarming acts passed after each rebellion but only the ban of 1746 was really successful. After the 1719 rebellion a lot of Highlanders stopped carrying arms publicly, but if they turned in anything it was a broken gun or sword as they kept their best weapons for future reference, you might say. It is interesting that the letter came from Lord Lovat, the notorious Jacobite.

[Micric]

Good morning Rob,

Actually, when you read Lord Lovat's letters, he is very much on the 'same side' as Lewis and Sir James Grant, and wanted Nothing to do with the rebels!
Maybe I can link the letters to you.
Some of his people 'came out' in the '45, but he actually remained loyal, yet I believe he was imprisoned for his "miss-deeds" anyway! His son led some of his people, and this was his undoing.
I will look through the letters for an example for you.

Be back soon!

R.

[Micric]

Rob,

Please see this link

https://archive.org/stream/chiefsofg...ge/n0/mode/1up

The letters from Simon, Lord Lovat start on page 330. Lord Lovat was the uncle of Lewis Grant, and many of the letters are of a personal nature,
Note the letter 449, starting page 352.
It is a letter to Archibald, Earl of Islay, --"Vindication of his loyalty,--services to the Government" dated 1737.

The letters by lord Lovat go through the period of the '45.
He was not in good health, and was continually quacking himself up. He had trouble in his home as well. Apparently, his wife spent /stole much of his personalroperty, and gave it away or sold it!
He said he always called her "My Dear" as she cost him a fortune to keep!
His ties to the Grants were very close at all times, with great love and affection for them as his own family.

The on-line book takes a little bit of navigating, but please give it a try. It is easier to read if you choose single page, and scroll down through the pages of interesting portions. Please note page 358 (Loyalty, and being mobbed by rock -throwing patriots)

The site does not allow copy & paste so cannot give example here.

Best of all.
Richard.

[MacRob]

Thanks very much. I will look it over.

[Micric]

Particularly Rob, Letter 488.

To Duncan Forbes, Lord President, That his (Lovat's) son had joined the rebellion, (1745) but he himself would live peaceably at home. (page 410.)

It really alters what we have been lead to believe!

[MacRob]

Got interrupted before I could reply, re: Lovat. I think that Lovat was not a "committed Jacobite" but then he was not a committed government supporter either. Throughout his life he was duplicitous to an extreme which may have exceeded the duplicity of his peers while he and they tried to walk to the tightrope that was British politics of the era. While his letters may profess his love of King and country, he also, when it was expedient, gave lip service at least, to the various rebellions. He wasn't called "the old fox" for nothing and while he moved to protect himself in the run up to 1745, he had done enough in the past to cost him his head (as you mentioned). Quite an interesting person who came from an interesting family. Look forward to reading the book and thanks again for the link.