Waistcoat...no belt?

[Steve Ashton]

The Belt - no belt - thing is an just old school, guy dressing thing. I was taught when I was young that you do not wear a belt with a vest or waistcoat. I was taught that you wore suspenders/braces when you wear a vest/waistcoat.

But then I was also taught that you never take off your jacket and wear a vest alone. I was taught that if the vest has the satin back and adjuster then it was proof that the vest was not designed to be outerwear.

There are many of these old school things. I was taught that if your vest has a straight bottom, and was single breasted, you left the bottom button undone. If your vest has the points at the bottom, the points were a simulation of the bottom button being left undone so you did up all the buttons.
This apparently comes from King George VII who was a rotund man and could not get the bottom vest buttons done up so left the bottom of his vests gaping open and the rest of us followed along.

This same old school teaching is what I still do for the most part. It is what I learned so it is what I am most comfortable with.

Today, all over the internet, you will see vests and belts worn together. If you choose to follow what has become widely accepted no one can say you are wrong.

[NUist]

Wow! That is really interesting - I hadn't heard that history before. Perhaps my best plan is to just get dressed and see how it all looks with/without a belt and go from there.
Thanks for your help.

[Liam]

For those of us who wear sporran hangers, rather than a sporran belt, a kilt belt is necessary even when wearing a vest.

[cookingkilted]

Greetings from Reddit. I hope you find your answer.

[Mike S]

I've seen the vest worn with and without a belt with equal frequency. We wore a belt when donned in vests and shirtsleeves in most pipe bands that I was affiliated with years ago. Not that one should go by that when dictating your own kit by any means.

Personally I prefer the vest to be worn WITHOUT a belt, particularly those sporting the large, rectangular plate buckles. Doubly so now that I'm a fat guy with a gut. No need to draw extra attention to the fact with a bright shiny target right at ground zero!

[OC Richard]

Whether one wears a belt under their waistcoat or not is of no consequence to their appearance as long as nobody sees it.

I've seen hundreds, maybe thousands, of vintage photos of men in kilts and what you never see is a belt visible under the waistcoat.

Of course we can't know if it's because they weren't wearing one, or that their waistcoat was long enough and the kilt's top and the belt high enough so that it can't be seen.

The fact that vintage Highland Dress catalogues refer to the belt as the Dirk Belt, and talk of it as being worn to support a dirk (but not otherwise) makes me think that the idea of wearing a dirk belt under a waistcoat in order to attempt to support an ill-fitting kilt is recent.

Here's what happens when you combine a kilt that's far too short, and a waistcoat that's far too short, and a belt.



Here's what one sees all the time with modern pipe bands. Very common for the waistcoats to be too short, and for the waistbelt to slip down in front. Obviously the belt has no support function, or it wouldn't slide down like that.



Even current Highland Dress manufacturers and retailers will dress their models with the waistbelt showing under the waistcoat. (Maybe they're trying to sell more stuff?)



I never wear a belt under my waistcoat, and rarely otherwise either.

About the bottom button undone, a look through hundreds of vintage photos of men in Highland Dress shows that this was extremely rare. Either all the buttons are buttoned, or sometimes the top button or two might be undone, or perhaps a middle button or two. But the bottom one is almost always buttoned.

[neloon]

...This apparently comes from King George VII who was a rotund man and could not get the bottom vest buttons done up so left the bottom of his vests gaping open and the rest of us followed along.....

Just for the sake of accuracy, a potential George VII is less than 2 years old! Did you mean Edward VII?
Alan

[Sir Didymous]

I always figured the bottom button thing to be a Saxon clothing convention. As per the OP, I don't typically wear one with my waistcoats. The exceptions being: when in a great kilt or philabeg, wearing it over a waistcoat to support a dirk (a rare thing limited to reenactments), and when wearing my Clergy tartan sportkilt as it has a low rise. The top of my waistcoats only cover about an inch and a half (if that) of the top of my kilt, so I think the belt looks okay with it.

That being said, my style is rather eccentric. So I wouldn't consider me an expert.

[OC Richard]

Just for the sake of accuracy, a potential George VII is less than 2 years old!
Alan

The next time I see a photo of the wee man I'll take note of how his waistcoat is buttoned!

Here ya go! Bottom button buttoned, top button not so much (well not a waistcoat but it will have to do)

[neloon]

The next time I see a photo of the wee man I'll take note of how his waistcoat is buttoned!

Here ya go! Bottom button buttoned, top button not so much (well not a waistcoat but it will have to do)

Let's hope the Diana influence has waned and he's allowed to wear the kilt one day.
Alan