Hunting for Gold

**Calbost** · 28th January 16, 12:13 PM

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for an example of "Dutch MacKay Gold" Tartan. So far i can only find digital samples of it online but i would really like to see a photo of it in kilt form to see how it looks in real life. The only problem is that it is really unusual... Can anyone here help with my search? (also i am interested to see "MacKay Dress USA")

Moran Taing/Many Thanks

Mark

**The Wizard of BC** · 28th January 16, 02:28 PM

I am very sorry Mark. I have searched both the Scottish Register of Tartans and The Scottish Tartans Authority and can find no Tartan under this or any similar name. I searched using all three of your words together and also separately.

The only reference that I can find at all is a pinterest post of a design that appears to be an unregistered variant of the MacKay Blue. SRT #2497 or STA #264
This may exist as a design on a computer only. This design may or may not have ever been woven.

I have also searched the fabric listings for the five largest Tartan weavers. None of them list this name in their stock fabrics lists.

Is it possible that there is an alternate name or perhaps different spellings.

Would it be possible for you to post a link or reference to where you found this Tartan?

As far as the Dress MacKay are you referring to SRT #2502/STA 7015, dated 01/01/2006? Here is the notes section on this design.

"Designed by the Reverend John B. Pahls, Jr. Clan Mackay Society, USA member from Colorado Springs, Colorado. The US Clan MacKay Society said since they had tried, but never received a response, to have it approved by the Chief, The Lord Reay, they would be recording it as an unofficial and a personal tartan of the Clan Mackay Society, USA. This was not an appropriate category so it has been classed as Corporate."

**Calbost** · 28th January 16, 04:46 PM

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly Wizard of BC

I seem to remember finding it on the forum a while back in a discussion about MacKay tartans but i could be incorrect.
The only reference other than the Pinterest post i could find is a gentleman posting it in this thread

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...tartans-60371/ <<<<

Does the difficulty in finding this tartan suggest it is unofficial?

Thank you for the Information on the Dress MacKay

Mark

**The Wizard of BC** · 28th January 16, 06:50 PM

You asked "Does the difficulty in finding this tartan suggest it is unofficial?" I'm going to respond with - When speaking of Tartan, the words "real" "official" and "registered" may, and often, mean totally different things.

"Real" when we speak of Tartan means the difference between a plaid that does not fit the standard definition of Tartan even though we call it Tartan.
A Tartan is defined as a plaid pattern that is the same warpwise as it is weftwise. (That's up/down vs side to side for the laymen) So all Tartans are made up of squares. Additionally all Tartan patterns or Setts must contain at least two pivot points. If you fold a Tartan at a pivot point it will create a mirror image.
By this definition The Welsh Tartans produced by The Wales Tartan Center would not be Tartans even thought we all recognize and call them by that name.

To be "Registered" a design must be sent to the registering office. Currently the registering office established by the Scottish Parliament to maintain a database of designs is The Scottish Register of Tartan. Prior to the establishment of the Registry this was done by private organisations such as The Scottish Tartans Authority.
All these offices do is check any new designs against the others in the database to insure that the new design in different and unique and that the design and name meet certain criteria. It then assigns a number and enters the design and any relevant information into the database.

To become "Official" a design must be chosen and designated by some regulatory body.

Let me give you an example from my own experience.

I am the designer of The Victoria, City of Gardens Tartan. My design is not the only design to carry the name Victoria obviously. It is also not to first to be designed for the City of Victoria, BC, Canada. In 1993 another Tartan was designed and called The City of Victoria.

I created what to me was a pleasing design. It followed the conventions of Tartan so was 'Real'.
I then had a run of fabric woven to my design. Again, all that this does is make it 'real'.

I then sent the thread count and a swatch of fabric to both the STA and the SRT. My design was accepted and given the ITI #7992. It is now "Registered".

When I Registered my design I wanted to insure that the colors I chose would always be the same I did not want there to be an ancient, dress or weathered version. So I restricted this design to be woven only by Marton Mills as specified their their JR code. My design is now "Restricted".

On the 14th of Jan 2010 my design and the competing design went in front of The Victoria City Council and a vote was held. My design was the one chosen and designated the "Official" Tartan of the city.

And finally I applied for a copyright on my design. After receiving a copyright my design is now 'Protected".

See what I mean about all these words?

I cannot find where your Dutch Mackay Gold design has ever been "Registered". If the Clan MacKay USA society has voted and adopted this design then yes it is "Official".

**figheadair** · 28th January 16, 11:55 PM

Steve - a good synopsis of the terms and meaning.

Looking at Terry's post (#10) in this thread the picture looks to show a woven specimen, so it must have been manufactured at least once. Interesting that none of us know anything about it.

Can I suggest that this thread is moved to the Tartan Place where it might get more responses.