Is it possible to wear a kilt and not look like you're from Scotland?

[davidlpope]

For Jock and others, who scratch their heads about American wearing kilts and "playing at being Scots", here are a few of my own reflections on the matter:

1. America is a very young nation, relatively speaking.
2. America is a very large and populous nation.
3. America is a very heterogenous nation.
4. America is composed of many folks whose ancestors immigrated within the last three or four generations.

These four elements, when combined, result in a disconnect between ethnicity and nationality. To describe someone as an American tells me little about their ethnic or cultural heritage.

An American might be someone whose ancestors were here in this country before the American Revolution and were English, Scottish, and Scotch-Irish. (Me)

An American might be someone who immigrated from Vietnam in his early childhood. (My fraternity brother whose room was directly across the hall from me in college)

We had loads in common, except for our ethnic and cultural heritage.

I find that many Americans, therefore, tend to want an ethnic or cultural identity that attempts to explain "What was the story of my people before they got to America?" In other words, being simply "American" isn't enough. Our individual stories' didn't start in 1607, or 1776, or 1870, or 1920. We want to understand what came before our ancestors got to these shores. That's our heritage too.

The history and culture of Scotland, albeit highly romanticized, is a cultural and ethnic identity that many feel drawn to. I think much of that culture and ethnic identity for those Americans feeling ethnically or culturally "adrift" is symbolized in the kilt. It's a bit mysterious, that. You don't see the average male attendee at an Oktoberfest celebration wearing lederhosen or guys showing up to the Greek festival in droves wearing fustanellas. Attend a Highland Games here in the South, though, and you're surrounded by men wearing kilts.

For some of these kilt-wearers, they get it naturally. There are members here whose families are recently immigrated and are carrying on an organic tradition of kilt-wearing. For most of us, though, this is a learned behavior (an affectation?). As a result we tend to get it "wrong" to Scottish eyes. Chalk it up to our earnestness and exuberance.

The number of Americans who are into "Scottishness" has mushroomed with the advent of the internet and increased discretionary spending. My grandparents would have little more than a book from the library to feed any interest they had in "Scottish heritage". Americans, now, treat "Scottishness" as a bit of a hobby- a cross between college football tailgating and historical reenacting.

So what do we do with all this? I think that Scots probably just have to grin and bear it a bit. You might think our earnestness and exuberance for a foreign culture quite odd. In a way it is. On the other hand, along with some detriments, there have been practical benefits to American interest in Scottish culture. Tourism dollars and tartan sales are not inconsequential. The two largest Highland Games in the world are in California and North Carolina. That sort of exposure has helped to renew interest in the clans, as evidenced by a number of clans no longer chiefless. And if it allows Scottish culture (the "real" bit) to be a bit stronger, what's the harm?

[neloon]

David
" America is a very young nation, relatively speaking." Agreed. Round about the teenage stage. And we all know what teenagers are like. So us old fuddy-duddy Scots will "just have to grin and bear it". You, on the other hand, have two choices
1. Wait a few hundred years until you have your own National Dress.
2. Come and live in Scotland - be Scots - then you might understand what we're trying to tell you.

Alan

[davidlpope]

David
" America is a very young nation, relatively speaking." Agreed. Round about the teenage stage. And we all know what teenagers are like. So us old fuddy-duddy Scots will "just have to grin and bear it". You, on the other hand, have two choices
1. Wait a few hundred years until you have your own National Dress.
2. Come and live in Scotland - be Scots - then you might understand what we're trying to tell you.

Alan

Alan,

Thanks for your humorous response. The thing is, America will never have a National Dress. Again, we're too big and too heterogenous to ever have a unified ethnic and cultural heritage.

One of the thoughts that often comes to mind is that there is a geographic limit to tribalism. And I think, when we discuss ethnic heritage, that's really what we're getting at: In-group, Out-group tribalism.

Scotland is geographically smaller than South Carolina. England is geographically smaller than North Carolina. Northern Ireland is geographically smaller than Connecticut.

I identify primarily as a North Carolinian, and as a Southerner. But even within North Carolina I'm out of place in the mountains or "Down East". My accent is different. I probably have the strongest identification with the county that I was raised in and that my ancestors settled two hundred years ago.

Once you get beyond the South, my affinity to the rest of the US quickly fades. It may be neat to visit Rhode Island or California, but those places are far removed from any part of my identity. This might seem strange, but would someone from Syria feel a close kinship to someone in Portugal? That's the distance from North Carolina to California.

In fact, once one gets beyond the South, my sense of identity tends to those places that my ancestors were from. It's hardly surprising. North Carolina was a British Colony for almost 200 years before Independence. It's only been about 250 years since.

So here's the question that I'll put to you: Would it be odd if a Scot who is of Indian descent decided to wear a sari to her wedding?

Put simply, here's what I think the Scots don't get-

Americans don't think we're doing this:

(Scots dressed up as cowboys at the Creetown Country Music Festival)



Americans think we're doing this:

(Scots dressed up as their Viking ancestors at Up-Helly-Aa)

[Alan H]

Jock, I'm honestly surprised at your stand that were you for some reason to emigrate to Canada, you'd cease wearing the kilt. I'm also surprised that you don't wear it at all when not in the Highlands. I didn't know that. Now, "surprised" is a good thing in this case, because I learned something from it.

So........

Good on ye for being consistent in what you say and do.

Honestly, everybody needs to try to UNDERSTAND other folks opinions here.... that doesn't mean you have to AGREE with them, and it certainly doesn't mean that just because you disagree with someone you have to change things that you do. It's just that on this forum about kilts, it's good to UNDERSTAND each other. Sometimes, as Jock has pointed out, that's the best we can do, and we just shake hands and carry on, happily disagreeing with each other.

It has to go both ways.... Lads from Scotland who look at all this fuss and bother and shake their heads need to understand that people outside of Scotland may feel that they have a wide variety of reasons for wearing a kilt, not all of them are grounded in "pretending to be a Scot". YOU may think they're "pretending to be a Scot" and certainly some of them are, but many believe they are not doing so.

On the other hand, folks in the US, Canada, Britain, Germany, New Zealand and Australia need to understand that some people...not ALL people, but some people in Scotland think that a lot of this obsession and dressing up in kilts is kind of odd, and in some ways inappropriate.

I'm not going to tell these lads that they have to... HAVE TO change their opinion so that my comfort level goes up.

[Liam]

Jock, I'm honestly surprised at your stand that were you for some reason to emigrate to Canada, you'd cease wearing the kilt. I'm also surprised that you don't wear it at all when not in the Highlands. I didn't know that. Now, "surprised" is a good thing in this case, because I learned something from it.

So........

Good on ye for being consistent in what you say and do.

Honestly, everybody needs to try to UNDERSTAND other folks opinions here.... that doesn't mean you have to AGREE with them, and it certainly doesn't mean that just because you disagree with someone you have to change things that you do. It's just that on this forum about kilts, it's good to UNDERSTAND each other. Sometimes, as Jock has pointed out, that's the best we can do, and we just shake hands and carry on, happily disagreeing with each other.

It has to go both ways.... Lads from Scotland who look at all this fuss and bother and shake their heads need to understand that people outside of Scotland may feel that they have a wide variety of reasons for wearing a kilt, not all of them are grounded in "pretending to be a Scot". YOU may think they're "pretending to be a Scot" and certainly some of them are, but many believe they are not doing so.

On the other hand, folks in the US, Canada, Britain, Germany, New Zealand and Australia need to understand that some people...not ALL people, but some people in Scotland think that a lot of this obsession and dressing up in kilts is kind of odd, and in some ways inappropriate.

I'm not going to tell these lads that they have to... HAVE TO change their opinion so that my comfort level goes up.

I was actually aware that Jock would reply as such because of a previous thread a few years ago, and was pleased that he responded that way again so that others could understand his views, (not that I agree with him,) but I certainly respect his right to have an opinion that differs from mine and as he has regularly displays, so does he.
Again a good thread that has been educational.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, I'm honestly surprised at your stand that were you for some reason to emigrate to Canada, you'd cease wearing the kilt. I'm also surprised that you don't wear it at all when not in the Highlands. I didn't know that. Now, "surprised" is a good thing in this case, because I learned something from it.

So........

Good on ye for being consistent in what you say and do.

Honestly, everybody needs to try to UNDERSTAND other folks opinions here.... that doesn't mean you have to AGREE with them, and it certainly doesn't mean that just because you disagree with someone you have to change things that you do. It's just that on this forum about kilts, it's good to UNDERSTAND each other. Sometimes, as Jock has pointed out, that's the best we can do, and we just shake hands and carry on, happily disagreeing with each other.

It has to go both ways.... Lads from Scotland who look at all this fuss and bother and shake their heads need to understand that people outside of Scotland may feel that they have a wide variety of reasons for wearing a kilt, not all of them are grounded in "pretending to be a Scot". YOU may think they're "pretending to be a Scot" and certainly some of them are, but many believe they are not doing so.

On the other hand, folks in the US, Canada, Britain, Germany, New Zealand and Australia need to understand that some people...not ALL people, but some people in Scotland think that a lot of this obsession and dressing up in kilts is kind of odd, and in some ways inappropriate.

I'm not going to tell these lads that they have to... HAVE TO change their opinion so that my comfort level goes up.

Don't you read EVERY word that I post here Alan? I am surprised at you!

No of course you don't and why should you? Actually my thinking on not wearing the kilt outwith Scotland is not that unusual. If you want a very public demonstration of this, then we only need to look at our Royal Family. Has anyone seen them, or a picture of them, as adults, in CIVILIAN kilt attire(I am not talking about military uniforms) outwith Scotland? They may of course and no doubt some internet expert will prove me wrong, but I doubt it. They like me, might make an exception on rare occasion, but I think not.

You may remember some time ago Thescot(Jim) was getting all excited that Prince Edward was going to visit Jim's local Highland games and poor Jim was absolutely sure that The Prince would wear the kilt. Jim and I had a fun time for a month or two doing the "oh yes he will", "oh no he won't " thing and it even got to serious stuff of us having a bet----a wee dram------ I knew it was a sure fire certainty that I was going to win-------and I did! Sorry Jim.

Now I don't think as I do just because the Royal Family do, I am not that shallow, but we happen to think alike because that is traditional Scottish thinking on kilt matters. Nothing more. And before umpteen pictures get posted here "proving" otherwise, yes there are exceptions! We see Clan Chiefs at Highland Games abroad clad in the kilt so it happens.

I can not do those attachment thingies, but a piece on: Mail online 10 July 2016 called "No Clan Do Charles" might be worth a look for some of you.

[Holcombe Thomas]

Jock, thank you for the "No clan do, Charles!" information. Interesting, and perhaps useful for those of us outside Scotland.

Holcombe

[Jock Scot]

Jock, thank you for the "No clan do, Charles!" information. Interesting, and perhaps useful for those of us outside Scotland.

Holcombe

I wonder if this article is a reprint? The bit about Prince William going to St Andrews seems a little odd?

[CMcG]

...

I can not do those attachment thingies, but a piece on: Mail online 10 July 2016 called "No Clan Do Charles" might be worth a look for some of you.

Here's the link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-Charles.html

That's very interesting! Apparently the kilt is not so universally loved in Scotland. Instead, there are some deeply ambivalent feelings about it

[Jock Scot]

Here's the link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-Charles.html

That's very interesting! Apparently the kilt is not so universally loved in Scotland. Instead, there are some deeply ambivalent feelings about it

As roughly four fifths of Scotland's population live in the lowlands, that is not really surprising.