Identity in the Scottish Diaspora

[Nathan]

Oh I don't know, at least you are now agreeing with me that you are a Canadian!

I've never claimed not to be. I have a maple leaf on my sgian dubh and Cape Breton Island on my sporran. I'm a veteran of the Canadian Army.

I'm certainly a Canadian and have always known and claimed that.

More specifically though, I'm a Scottish-Canadian or Canadian-Scot or Canadian Gael whatever you like but the word Canadian is always there. The difference is that you think the terms are mutually exclusive and in the context in which they are being used, I think they are not.

N

[Jock Scot]

What amazes me in this thread and the other thread that started all this and was closed for going off topic is that no one answered Alan"s original question followed by one in the same vein by me later and perhaps Rex too. I cannot remember the exact wording , but no doubt some cleaver soul could find it. Now there have been pages of discussion and not one of you have even attempted to answer it. The silence on that matter in particular is deafening. There is one heck of a lot of noise about almost everything else. Could it possibly be that those outwith these shores have not got an answer?

[Jock Scot]

I've never claimed not to be. I have a maple leaf on my sgian dubh and Cape Breton Island on my sporran. I'm a veteran of the Canadian Army.

I'm certainly a Canadian and have always known and claimed that.

More specifically though, I'm a Scottish-Canadian or Canadian-Scot or Canadian Gael whatever you like but the word Canadian is always there. The difference is that you think the terms are mutually exclusive and in the context in which they are being used, I think they are not.

N

You may think so, but many a real Scot thinks otherwise. Therein lies the problem on this international website.

No one is denying your right to have and if you wish, celebrate your Scottish roots, or any other international roots you may have.How can they? But that does not make you Scottish.

[Nathan]

You may think so, but many a real Scot thinks otherwise. Therein lies the problem on this international website.

No one is denying your right to have and if you wish, celebrate your Scottish roots, or any other international roots you may have.How can they? But that does not make you Scottish.

It just makes me a Scottish Canadian.

Warning: According to some self-described "real Scots" this isn't a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Canadians

[Father Bill]

Can we perhaps agree that the word "Scottish" is an adjective, not a noun? It would make a difference to this discussion.

[Jock Scot]

It just makes me a Scottish Canadian.

Warning: According to some self-described "real Scots" this isn't a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Canadians

That is all fine and dandy Nathan, except the "Scottish" Scots, on the whole don't agree with it.

I am off the air now trying to solve my "missing pictures" mystery.

[neloon]

Nathan,
I like asking silly questions and this one is particularly whimsical.
If you wake up tomorrow and there has been a major tectonic shift and Nova Scotia now finds itself in amongst the Outer Hebrides. Would you feel pleased? (I'm sure we would in Scotland). Or would you still feel Canadian? Well, obviously you would because that's a very solid part of your life's experience. Do you think that would wear off assuming you were welcomed? Or would you long for the homeland even though you were back in an older homeland? Is it easier to behold the Hebrides in dreams than to face up to being there?
I don't know - it may be worth half a minute's thought. After all, you probably could emigrate to Scotland. So why not?

Ailean

[davidlpope]

What amazes me in this thread and the other thread that started all this and was closed for going off topic is that no one answered Alan"s original question followed by one in the same vein by me later and perhaps Rex too. I cannot remember the exact wording , but no doubt some cleaver soul could find it. Now there have been pages of discussion and not one of you have even attempted to answer it. The silence on that matter in particular is deafening. There is one heck of a lot of noise about almost everything else. Could it possibly be that those outwith these shores have not got an answer?

Jock, what question are you referring to?

Why do we care about our Scottish ancestry?

Is it insecurity in being American/Canadian that causes us to want to recognize our Scottish ancestry?

Are those the questions?

[ThistleDown]

The world does not turn on the subject of this thread. Here we are all asking questions, offering answers and stating opinions about genealogy and heritage and the need to combine bits and pieces to reveal who we are. That's all. Nothing hidden.

David, I'm not sure which of the many questions Jock is referring to, but these are my unanswered ones.

Most folk in Scotland (and many on this forum from elsewhere) take their nationality from their citizenship. Even if we have dual citizenship we don't seem to hyphenate the two to describe who we are. There are lots of folk in Scotland from other places; much like non-aboriginal North Americans, they came to Britain for a better life and as soon as they could they acquired British citizenship and became British (English, Scottish, Welsh, if they wished to more closely define the part of these islands in which they chose to live). Earlier in the thread there was a pic of Humza Yousaf wearing clothing representing two bits of his heritage. His father is from Pakistan and his mother from Kenya. Humza was born in Scotland. He is typical of first generation immigrants. He is strongly committed to his birth-nation, but he does not hyphenate his citizenship with his heritage. I suppose if he did he would be Pakistani-Kenyan-Scottish.

That's the way it is in Scotland and that's the reason. Perhaps the other Scots reading this will 'aye' if they agree. Or neigh if they don't

In America and Canada hyphenating citizenship and a selected ancestor's place of birth is frequently, but not always, the norm. That's combining heritage and citizenship; I understand the fact but not yet the reason.

The question that I asked earlier is why? What's the difference that makes this the way in the new land of North America and not in the new land of Scotland?

I have heard that America is a big land and that's the reason. That would seem to me to be saying that a move from Florida to California five generations ago results in the hyphenated Floridian-Californian. I don't know; does it?

Is it a need for deeper roots than those to be found in NA after even as many as five or ten generations? If so, why is the selected ancestry Scottish and not another of the myriad genealogical lines?

Is it an admiration for earlier times in Scotland? An admiration for the Scotland of today? A feeling of spiritual connection and, if so, with what aspect of 'Scottishness'?

Some seem to think there is, but I assure you there is no confrontation in these questions and no accusation. I am seriously interested in why anyone after five or ten generations away from one ancestor's home-land, wants to call himself by that ancestor's nationality.

Perhaps I should make it clear that I have never said that the kilt belongs in The Highlands or even to Scotland in today's world. I wear Highland dress far more often than I wear any other form, and I wear it wherever I am in the world. I am a Moderator of a forum called XMTScot owned by an American (with dual Canadian citizenship, who doesn't seem to have any Scottish heritage). The subject of 'the kilt' only enters my questions in this thread if somebody says 'I wear the kilt because I am Scottish' or 'I am Scottish so I wear the kilt'.

[Liam]

That is all fine and dandy Nathan, except the "Scottish" Scots, on the whole don't agree with it.

I am off the air now trying to solve my "missing pictures" mystery.

Jock... as you may have figured out you are are not going to convince Canadians of Scottish ancestory of your views, perhaps it is best we call it a draw... and continue with our discussions which increase our knowledge of each other's culture.
Liam