Lowland/Scotch-Irish/American Colonists vs. Highlanders.

[Tarheel]

I, have again, made a broad statement that needed clarification. This is the reason I look to the guidance of the Rabble. With my family removed for so long from the Highlands, I can only speak of the family feelings as I have grown up knowing them.

[Jock Scot]

I, have again, made a broad statement that needed clarification. This is the reason I look to the guidance of the Rabble. With my family removed for so long from the Highlands, I can only speak of the family feelings as I have grown up knowing them.

You are not alone, we see it all the time on this website. Which is precisely why the Scots think as they do on a very contentious subject on this website that has recently drifted away.

[davidlpope]

I, have again, made a broad statement that needed clarification. This is the reason I look to the guidance of the Rabble. With my family removed for so long from the Highlands, I can only speak of the family feelings as I have grown up knowing them.

The funny thing is that the "kilt as a pan-Scottish cultural icon" movement started well after most of America's Lowland and Scotch-Irish immigrants left the UK. So, the tendancy here in the South to embrace "Scottishness" is an anachronism, at best.

[Luke MacGillie]

People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.

It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.

With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.

[davidlpope]

People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.

It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.

With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.

Luke,

Very good points. I'm still left wondering why the tribe that I (we?) pick to be associated with is that of Highland Scotland. My hypothesis is that the kilt, tartan, and bagpipes, are just to appealing to pass up. Perhaps not unlike the trend(now reversing?) of Native American tribes throughout the US to adopt Plains Indian culture (coup bonnets, etc.) and lay aside their own. The irony is that my Lowland Scots/Borders/Scotch-Irish ancestors (my tribe) were the very folks who were fighting the Highlanders (sometimes outfitted...) in their kilts and plaids.

Yet, the first of next month I will gather with other North Carolinians, many of whom are descended only from Lowland/Borders/Scotch-Irish ancestors, for our annual St. Andrew's Day Dinner. We'll all be decked out in our kilts and (fly!) plaids.

It does cause me to ponder if I/we haven't traded our natural "birthright" for an identity that our ancestors would be indignant over. Just musings...

[georgeetta]

there were scotch irish up in new hampshire where rogers rangers came from .

new yorks state
1738 Islay scots applied for a colony in argylls ny and stayed tory many were in n jersey, jane macrae shot n scalped in 1777 was a tory but her brothers were americans later settled south of ballston spa . 1774 sr wm johnson landed about 400 glengarry macdonnell's about johnstown ny and many became ..johnsons greens or butler's rangers settled in kingston ontario ..raiding nys thru war . many scots settled about cherry valley @ massacre somehow campbells. many settled about scot's bush burnt hills ny also ..middle line road town of ballston .

th

[georgeetta]

sorry

lists of the various militias in ny ..like 7th -10th about albany ..list many scottish names ..pro american . and fought at saratoga .

the hudson valley 1650 up albany was dutch and aftr 1710 german, schoharie german and mohawk valley largely german since abt 1710 , schenecatdy was a dutch settlement torched in 1690 .

in 1600's columbia county was bought by the livingston family who set up a tenantry like van rensselaer dutch in 2 counties . they led the 10th albany militia, they lost fortune in war and moved after to pa. border to livingston manor to renew their income . a signer of declaration of independance and married to important schulyer dutch upper class locally -note alex- hamilton and van rens- family .

note article tartan tomahawk highlander magazine abt 1980 ..sr john johnson . sr wm died 1774 abt .

an early land owner in schenectady was abraham glen who saved abt 30 captives after the schenecatdy massacre of 1690 by french and indians .

a 1774 royal map of new york shows grantees of black watch and ..murray's highlanders along lake champlain some took possession of their lands like mackenzie a sgt in port henry ny many were harrassed by the green mtn boys who tried to claim their grant lands , I have seen deeds ..some had compass bearings to the fort at crown point from the shoreline .

during saratoga 1777 david jones was a washington county tory who guided for burgoyne his fiancee jane was killed trying to see him south of ft edward. another family "allan" was massacred by marauding indian allies of burgoyne who had been lectured in willsboro by burgoyne about not harming citizens, this may have been basis for ..magua character in last of the mohicans .

about it for me . ..irishman ..caldwell mentioned in "drums along the mohawk" was a ranger leader in nys raids he si show n wearing his mohawk garb in a painting .

[georgeetta]

ok ok forgot

highlanders were 1st sent about albany in fr ind war ..as garrisons on watch ..black watch were out by schenecatdy in winter as guard .

in fr ind war many trained under rogers rangers new hampshiremen. and other ranger untis from other new england areas .

oh, when scotch glengarries were disarmed prior to offical war ..they handed in their weapoins abt ..johnstown then hiked to montreal under john johnson for forming into ..johnsons greens ..kings royal yorkers ? then some joined butlers rangers..and were used combined with iroquois raiding groups ..such as under joseph brant .

battle of oriskany dead should be checked for scottish names 1777 .

thanks

[georgeetta]

oh

a black watch kilted group called royal highland emigrants were scots who hiked to canada . they fought at saratoga apparently .
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...NYLibrarry.png
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...c59c6c0fd1eeo0

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...a4771e66f4.jpg butlers rangers

johnsons greens https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...248b9bdf52.jpg

[TheMcManus]

People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.

It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.

With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.

Lowland Scots, the Scots language ....are Germanic rather than Celtic in origin. Although there has been considerable mixing , you can not say Irish or Highland culture is Germanic.