Lowland/Scotch-Irish/American Colonists vs. Highlanders.

[Peter Crowe]

Yes, I agree, Peter. Other than my university years at Aberdeen I've never lived in the Lowlands. At school in the Highlands I was kilted and that continued most often during my university years. My fellow students respected my choice just as I respected theirs. Children in the streets I walked to my lodgings called 'kiltie kiltie cauld bum' but that was the extent of it. (My second degree was at Manchester and after a very few strange weeks, I packed my kilt into a box and and sent it home.)

Those young Aberdeen townies were, as you say, of a different socio-economic class than I was, but they have grown up to be the middle-aged users of kilt-hire shops today. Most often they take their instruction from the owners of those shops, without having the advantage of generations of kilted ancestors. Even if their names are Highland.

I learned from my Dad, who learned growing up wearing the kilt in the 40's and 50's (a much more tweedy era than today). He was the kid who wore his kilt daily to Uddingston Grammar School from 1952-56, and has never complained about getting pelters in a village just outside of Glasgow. His first pair of long trousers were his uniform as a Midshipman in the Merchant Navy at age 17. I also agree the kilt-hire business in Scotland has gone in for gimmicky rather than traditional.

[ThistleDown]

...appreciative of the reading list!

You are welcome, FB.

More for your 'Important to Read' bookcase: 'Transatlantic Scots' by Celeste Ray. In her master’s degree in Cultural Resource Management at the University of Edinburgh, Celeste looked at the politics of Scottish national identity. Her Ph.D. dissertation considered what Americans of Scottish descent make of that identity and how they claim particular visions of Scottishness as “heritage.” She published this as 'Highland Heritage: Scottish Americans in the American South'. An immensely important work overlooked in the 21C North American race for root identity*.

Edit: *from both sides of the cultural fence.

[Luke MacGillie]

Another good read is We're Indians Sure Enough : The Legacy of the Scottish Highlanders in the United States: https://www.amazon.com/Were-Indians-.../dp/0971385807

[georgeetta]

there were scotch irish up in new hampshire where rogers rangers came from .

new yorks state
1738 Islay scots applied for a colony in argylls ny and stayed tory many were in n jersey, jane macrae shot n scalped in 1777 was a tory but her brothers were americans later settled south of ballston spa . 1774 sr wm johnson landed about 400 glengarry macdonnell's about johnstown ny and many became ..johnsons greens or butler's rangers settled in kingston ontario ..raiding nys thru war . many scots settled about cherry valley @ massacre somehow campbells. many settled about scot's bush burnt hills ny also ..middle line road town of ballston .

th

[georgeetta]

sorry

lists of the various militias in ny ..like 7th -10th about albany ..list many scottish names ..pro american . and fought at saratoga .

the hudson valley 1650 up albany was dutch and aftr 1710 german, schoharie german and mohawk valley largely german since abt 1710 , schenecatdy was a dutch settlement torched in 1690 .

in 1600's columbia county was bought by the livingston family who set up a tenantry like van rensselaer dutch in 2 counties . they led the 10th albany militia, they lost fortune in war and moved after to pa. border to livingston manor to renew their income . a signer of declaration of independance and married to important schulyer dutch upper class locally -note alex- hamilton and van rens- family .

note article tartan tomahawk highlander magazine abt 1980 ..sr john johnson . sr wm died 1774 abt .

an early land owner in schenectady was abraham glen who saved abt 30 captives after the schenecatdy massacre of 1690 by french and indians .

a 1774 royal map of new york shows grantees of black watch and ..murray's highlanders along lake champlain some took possession of their lands like mackenzie a sgt in port henry ny many were harrassed by the green mtn boys who tried to claim their grant lands , I have seen deeds ..some had compass bearings to the fort at crown point from the shoreline .

during saratoga 1777 david jones was a washington county tory who guided for burgoyne his fiancee jane was killed trying to see him south of ft edward. another family "allan" was massacred by marauding indian allies of burgoyne who had been lectured in willsboro by burgoyne about not harming citizens, this may have been basis for ..magua character in last of the mohicans .

about it for me . ..irishman ..caldwell mentioned in "drums along the mohawk" was a ranger leader in nys raids he si show n wearing his mohawk garb in a painting .

[georgeetta]

ok ok forgot

highlanders were 1st sent about albany in fr ind war ..as garrisons on watch ..black watch were out by schenecatdy in winter as guard .

in fr ind war many trained under rogers rangers new hampshiremen. and other ranger untis from other new england areas .

oh, when scotch glengarries were disarmed prior to offical war ..they handed in their weapoins abt ..johnstown then hiked to montreal under john johnson for forming into ..johnsons greens ..kings royal yorkers ? then some joined butlers rangers..and were used combined with iroquois raiding groups ..such as under joseph brant .

battle of oriskany dead should be checked for scottish names 1777 .

thanks

[georgeetta]

oh

a black watch kilted group called royal highland emigrants were scots who hiked to canada . they fought at saratoga apparently .
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...NYLibrarry.png
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...c59c6c0fd1eeo0

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...a4771e66f4.jpg butlers rangers

johnsons greens https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...248b9bdf52.jpg

[Terry Searl]

You must be joking! Its only in very recent times----the latter part of my lifetime----- has the kilt been accepted by some Lowland Scots. There are still places in the Lowlands where the kilt is regarded with vicious scorn.

I kid you not.

We in the Highlands often have considerable difficulty to this day, in listening to Lowlanders claiming the kilt as theirs and giving out kilt attire advice----often incorrect------ without a rather cynical smile at best and not a little disbelief!

...... I have dear friends from the Lowlands and when I suggest I wear my kilt the lady says she won't be walking beside me if I do.........she isn't derogatory about it, and won't elaborate further, but she says she just doesn't like to see men in Kilts

[TheMcManus]

People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.

It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.

With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.

Lowland Scots, the Scots language ....are Germanic rather than Celtic in origin. Although there has been considerable mixing , you can not say Irish or Highland culture is Germanic.

[O'Callaghan]

My late Scots uncle (who was really a cousin, I believe) was from around Glasgow, and wore a kilt in some unidentifiable (to me at the time) weathered tartan whenever he attended highland games (annually, I suppose) and perhaps for some other special occasions. One of his sons, who is coincidentally very close to me in age, wears a kilt on a rather more frequent basis, in Black Watch tartan I believe, although to be fair I suppose you would say he now lives in the Highlands, more or less. Nonetheless, they are or were kilt wearing lowland Scots.