My first time wearing my Scottish clothes and accessories.....

[CollinMacD]

6 yrs in the Reserves; PS2, Capt. of the Port, L.A., Long Beach;
Spec. Agent, CG Intelligence. Retired after 32 yrs civilian law enf.
Great to meet you!

5 years USCG, (Radioman 2nd Class), 11 Years CIA, Special OPs, and currently 11 years US Customs and Border Protection (CBP Officer equal to Colonel)....time in between was spent in Commercial Field of Satellite and Network Operations....similar backgrounds....

Greet to meet you too. Retirement with old Fed retirement plan (CSRS), in two maybe three years, then to Florida....trying for 25 but probably will only make it to 23 most 24.

[CollinMacD]

CollinMacD.

Herein lies a problem. Let me say straight away that no one is denying you the right to wear your decorations, least of all me, that you earned during your service. But.........

The problem is the difficulty of marrying up Scottish kilt traditions and American traditions regarding decorations. The truth is, there is a difficulty here and it is as well that you are aware of it.

In the UK, including Scotland, civilians only wear their decorations on specific occasions and at functions where the wearing of decorations is specifically requested. To do otherwise is considered rather bad form over here. As I understand it, in the US decorations are worn fairly commonly at almost any occasion one chooses at the owner's whim.

I am not at all sure there is an easy answer to this, or even an answer, but personally I take the view that if you are wearing the Scottish clan tartan in the form of the kilt and appropriate attire, then Scottish traditions really ought to be followed. Others may of course differ, but it does clearly demonstrate that wearing the Scottish kilt outwith these shores does create a conflict of traditions.

Trust me I understand, as I lived in England (Croughton, near Upper Heyford), near Oxfordshire, (Banbary or Bicester area) for almost four years, but I saw a lot of British veterans both local and London wearing their large medals and smaller ones with civilian attire especially near Remembrance Day, November 11th with the poppies. I attended several functions at the American Embassy, and a couple at St. James Palace, with both British and other Nationalities, and several wore with civilian attire their military miniature dress medal with black tie.

I understand Scotland is different, but I see so many US Scots wearing their medal, to a point their is an actual US Coast Guard directive authorizing miniature medals to be work with FORMAL ATTIRE, include Kilts.... USCG only branch to have a fully registered and recognize Scottish Tartan, other have tartans but not recognized by that branch of service or registered in Scotland...

Trust me I understand and respect your post, but for this one this is very personal to me....Regards, Collin

[Liam]

Trust me I understand, as I lived in England (Crouton, near Upper Hayford), near Oxfordshire, (Banbary or Bicester area) for almost four years, but I saw a lot of British both local and London wearing their large medals in civilian attire especially near Remembrance Day, November 11th with the poppies. I understand Scotland is different, but I see so many US Scots wearing their medal, to a point their is an actual US Coast Guard directive authorizing miniature medals to be work with FORMAL ATTIRE, include Kilts.... USCG only branch to have a fully registered and recognize Scottish Tartan, other have tartans but not recognized by that branch of service or registered in Scotland...

Trust me I understand and respect your post, but for this one this is very personal to me....Regards, Collin

A hearty welcome to the forum from Calgary, Canada!
I think that is the point Jock is making is that near Remembrance Day and to events associated with Nov. 11th it is very appropriate to wear one's medals. Not so to civilian events at other times of the year (such as a Burns supper).
Btw, you have the elements for your formal attire, and with the tweeks suggested here you will be better turned than most. You may find that there are very few events that require the formality that you have outfitted yourself with and may look to acquire a tweed jacket, plain leather sporran and regular brogues.
Slainte...

[CollinMacD]

A hearty welcome to the forum from Calgary, Canada!
I think that is the point Jock is making is that near Remberance Day and to events associated with Nov. 11th it is very appropriate to wear one's medals. Not so to civilian events at other times of the year (such as a Burns supper).
Btw, you have the elements for your formal attire, and with the tweeks suggested here you will be better turned than most. You may find that there are very few events that require the formality that you have outfitted yourself with and may look to acquire a tweed jacket, plain leather sporran and regular brogues.
Slainte...

I also did purchased, regular broghes, plain leather sporran, Horsehair civilian sporran, an all black formal sporran, Jacobite soporran, and not a tweed jacket (want to buy one when I go to Scotland) but a Navy Blue Argyle Jacket with both a MacDonald Clanranald modern tartan vest (waistcoat), and navy blue vest. I also bout a pair of Trews in MacDonald Clanranald Tartan. just did not wear them for that, plus the off white and hunter tartan hose. I also have a Macdonald tartan bow tie, a red cravat, and other semi formal wear. I tried to cover all bases.

I would not wear the medals to a Burns dinner, but would only wear the medal to a formal ball. I agree medal should not be worn at all events, but to very formal ones in the Washington DC area, as my experience attending such events most veterans and retired military do wear them....to Scottish events, no.

Collin

[Jock Scot]

Trust me I understand, as I lived in England (Croughton, near Upper Heyford), near Oxfordshire, (Banbary or Bicester area) for almost four years, but I saw a lot of British veterans both local and London wearing their large medals and smaller ones with civilian attire especially near Remembrance Day, November 11th with the poppies. I attended several functions at the American Embassy, and a couple at St. James Palace, with both British and other Nationalities, and several wore with civilian attire their military miniature dress medal with black tie.

I understand Scotland is different, but I see so many US Scots wearing their medal, to a point their is an actual US Coast Guard directive authorizing miniature medals to be work with FORMAL ATTIRE, include Kilts.... USCG only branch to have a fully registered and recognize Scottish Tartan, other have tartans but not recognized by that branch of service or registered in Scotland...

Trust me I understand and respect your post, but for this one this is very personal to me....Regards, Collin

Actually Collin, I am afraid to say that I don't think you do understand. Aren't all decorations given for various achievements,personal to the individual? I fully accept and without question that you have earned your decorations and you have battled adversity in a personal capacity too, but that is no reason to ignore Scottish kilt conventions.

I am really sorry to give you any grief over this, but I would ask you to consider if wearing the Scottish Clan tartan kilt is really for you? Why not be the American that you are and follow your American traditions and leave the Scots to theirs?

I write this with regret but with honesty of thought.

[CollinMacD]

Actually Collin, I am afraid to say that I don't think you do understand. Aren't all decorations given for various achievements,personal to the individual? I fully accept and without question that you have earned your decorations and you have battled adversity in a personal capacity too, but that is no reason to ignore Scottish kilt conventions.

I am really sorry to give you any grief over this, but I would ask you to consider if wearing the Scottish Clan tartan kilt is really for you? Why not be the American that you are and follow your American traditions and leave the Scots to theirs?

I write this with regret but with honesty of thought.

With all due respect, I think it might be better to agree to disagree with your point of view. Please understand that not all decorations are earned for personal achievements, some are given as a tribute to one putting their life on the line for their country, in my case the United States. Secondly, although my ancestors are Scottish, I am a U.S. citizen first, and my grandparents (both sides) hails from Nova Scotia and became U.S. citizens. My ancestors who were born in Scotland, was imprisoned, land and personal property taken from them, put in extreme hardship, and forced to leave Scotland in 1789, my ancestors had no choice in the matter, unless you call death a choice. So going on your reasoning, I am also Roman Catholic, which is a big no no in Scotland, so now I have three strikes against being pure Scottish.

I have chosen to wear the kilt and Scottish accessories to honor my Scottish HERITAGE, not Scotland as a country. You see once a Jacobite, always one I truly do respect your approach, advice, and do understand the very stern meaning you apply for the dress codes. As I stated, I live in Washington DC area, and attend MANY black tie functions. Most all functions I attend when Americans and Canadians are wearing Scottish Dress in black tie, most all veterans and retirees are displaying their decorations.

So maybe it is not pure Scottish protocol, but I am not in Scotland, but in the U.S. If I were in Scotland and wearing my attire, under no circumstances would I ever wear my military decorations, when in Rome.... Again wearing the Scottish Clan Tartan Kilt is for me, as its my birthright, its the family I was born into. So maybe we agree to disagree on this one, but I truly do appreciate all the advice you have provided, and will do as most have suggested. Thanks...Collin

[Jock Scot]

Collin

Frankly I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your answer, but you are right, we are better to agree to disagree.

[48HofC]

I am Canadian Collin and attended the same type of events you do, you are 100% correct when it comes to wearing medals on these occasions. It is the norm from what I have observed.

[Taskr]

Greetings Colin,
My maternal heritage is also Clanranald, arriving on the Hector in Pictou NS - I went with ancient colours and my siblings will never be able to surpass the brownie points now held with my mom. I must say that I am rather envious reading your list of attire, clothing and accessories. You seem to have just about everything covered off, including things to wear with "regular" clothes
The belt choice, after reading much on the forums, I've left to the "waistcoat on/belt off, waistcoat off/belt optional" guidance. I will note, though, that where I have seen someone wearing a waistcoat and belt, the belt has always been under the bottom of the waistcoat (yours appears to be worn over the waistcoat?). I turfed my tartan flashes as soon as I could (well, not really, they are still in a drawer). The use of complimentary and even 'flashy' colour flashes are more in line with full hose ties; of which I also have a set and will get more (right, Santa?) Imagine a vibrant red, or mustard with your outfit; smashing - IMO
I too wear my miniatures at formal events where medals are indicated, or implied (military dinners). I have also worn my large medals on my Crail jacket where appropriate to the event (eg: the guest box at the Royal NS Tattoo, GG Honours and Awards Ceremony). The guide to wearing of honours and awards appropriately and when appropriate note the order of dress and not the type of dress.
I wish you well in your recovery, appreciate your service, and hope to continue to hear from you and see your many levels of tartan dress here on the forums.

dh' aindeòin cò theireadh e

[CollinMacD]

I got a lot of great pointers on this board, and am very appreciative of all the comments.

I might not agree with everything, but most I do. As stated I need to learn more, and this is how.

I am in agreement with the belt, I will not wear that. I have also removed the broach and the fly, and will not wear that with the miniature medals. When I go to events were I do not where the medal I might wear the fly. I also will make sure the kilt is hiked up more, the hose is rolled below the knee, the flashes show only the ends. I have got a white wing tip collar shirt with a black tie and a tartan tie, still need to decide on that.

Just want to thank all of your for you comments, assistance, and constructive criticism as all of it makes me think and want to represent my clan with honor, regardless of being Scottish, Candadian or American, we all want to make sure our appearance is proper and respectful. Thanks.