Plaid with a regular suit?

**Jock Scot** · 26th June 17, 05:07 AM

OCR.

To me and many traditional thinking Scots, if those of you are wanting to dress in the tartan kilt,giving allowances for non Scottish weather, then every effort should be made to wear the kilt and its attire properly and at least in the smart and formal events. To do otherwise really does cause some of us to grind our teeth! With that does come the inevitable thought, unpalatable though it may be for many of you over there, of people playing at being Scots and doing it badly, so go and wear something else and wreck that! Yes I know! Some Scots dress pretty appallingly too, but at least they are Scots!

I don't think there is really an answer, other than education such as we have here on this website and for certain sure some of that will fall on deaf ears for assorted reasons and some will never have the opportunity reach the ears and minds of those that might benefit from some advice.

**derosa** · 26th June 17, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

OCR.

To me and many traditional thinking Scots, if those of you are wanting to dress in the tartan kilt,giving allowances for non Scottish weather, then every effort should be made to wear the kilt and its attire properly and at least in the smart and formal events. To do otherwise really does cause some of us to grind our teeth! With that does come the inevitable thought, unpalatable though it may be for many of you over there, of people playing at being Scots and doing it badly, so go and wear something else and wreck that! Yes I know! Some Scots dress pretty appallingly too, but at least they are Scots!

You do realize many of us don't see ourselves as playing at being Scots. I wear the kilt because it is the most comfortable male garment I know, and recognized as such, while also being very versatile. And while Scots may have created the convention of named tartans, the idea of the kilt is far older then that in western society. Further, I've seen the pics, yup I have family photos from my wife's and my side of kilted family members of old wearing kilts in fairly common attire. Like me they didn't get invited to many formal dinners or occasions and saw the kilt as a standard form of attire. I really prefer to not be constrained by the formalization efforts of the late 19th and early 20th centuries as to the kilt only being worn "properly". And as the kilt maker said when I walked in her shop wearing a kilt with a T-shirt and sandles, "its good to see the kilt just being worn, too many think its too delicate to wear out and about to the grocery store or the hardware store but if they could wear it in battle it should survive anywhere.
Clothing conventions come and go and truly formal attire is waning, at church, in business, at the universities; I'd rather the kilt was reclaimed as a comfortable piece of clothing then lost as just another formal item too fussy to bother with.

**Jock Scot** · 26th June 17, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by derosa

You do realize many of us don't see ourselves as playing at being Scots. I wear the kilt because it is the most comfortable male garment I know, and recognized as such, while also being very versatile. And while Scots may have created the convention of named tartans, the idea of the kilt is far older then that in western society. Further, I've seen the pics, yup I have family photos from my wife's and my side of kilted family members of old wearing kilts in fairly common attire. Like me they didn't get invited to many formal dinners or occasions and saw the kilt as a standard form of attire. I really prefer to not be constrained by the formalization efforts of the late 19th and early 20th centuries as to the kilt only being worn "properly". And as the kilt maker said when I walked in her shop wearing a kilt with a T-shirt and sandles, "its good to see the kilt just being worn, too many think its too delicate to wear out and about to the grocery store or the hardware store but if they could wear it in battle it should survive anywhere.
Clothing conventions come and go and truly formal attire is waning, at church, in business, at the universities; I'd rather the kilt was reclaimed as a comfortable piece of clothing then lost as just another formal item too fussy to bother with.

The Scottish traditional kilt wearer discovered all that you say about the kilt years ago, casual, smart, formal, wars and so on. Some in the past wore the kilt daily, some these days still do. Some wear the kilt to all sorts of events from informal shopping, shooting, football/rugby matches, strolls in the country, smart events and to formal events. Some just wear the kilt for smart and formal events. BUT...

Just seeing the kilt being worn is missing the point and not enough. Wearing the kilt properly is the trick and seeing the kilt worn in a slovenly manner is disappointing and mildly offensive on some occasions at informal affairs and is certainly disappointing and possibly offensive at smart and formal affairs. Likewise overdressing and underdressing for any event is just as disappointing verging on offensive to a traditionalist Scot. It is these finer points that many tend to be oblivious of.

Thinking on a tad, of course if one is wearing a modern utilikilt style kilt then wear them how you like as they have nothing to with Scotland, or Scottish kilt conventions.

**Profane James** · 26th June 17, 08:58 AM

....waiting for another full on 'who should and shouldn't wear the kilt' discussion so I can use this:

image.jpeg

...carry on...

**Jock Scot** · 26th June 17, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Profane James

....waiting for another full on 'who should and shouldn't wear the kilt' discussion so I can use this:

image.jpeg

...carry on...

Count me out on that discussion!

**OC Richard** · 28th June 17, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

OCR.

people playing at being Scots

This is entering the always tricky and error-prone arena of guessing at other people's thoughts and motives.

Though I certainly can relate.

The flip side would be an American (especially from the West) seeing a wedding in Scotland where everybody is in what we call Western Wear: cowboy hats, cowboy boots, jeans, the huge oval trophy buckles, western shirts, bolo ties. Are they "playing at being American"? Perhaps, but I wouldn't assume anything, and I'd like to have a talk with them and find out why.

**KMCMICHAEL** · 28th June 17, 07:44 AM

Well the thing is no one dressed like that in the old west. We have Remington and Russel paintings but the western dress of today is just modern wear. The bowler would have been more common in Deadwood and the Goodnight trail than the cowboy hat.

I do appreciate the advice on here more than most and at times that are appropriate I hope that I will make Jock and others proud of my efforts, but as a part time musician, I will often dress just to draw attention be it in my kilt, dishdasha or the BouBou I got in Senegal!

I think our clothes are like our language. We do what is comfortable or use it for effect, consciensly or not.

**OC Richard** · 29th June 17, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by KMCMICHAEL

no one dressed like that in the old west.

For sure Western Wear, like Highland Dress, is a living thing which has continued to evolve.

19th century western dress and 19th century Highland Dress are historical things, while modern Western Wear and modern traditional Highland Dress are the current examples of an unbroken chain of evolution going back into the past.

I've long been aware of an analogy between the two.

An example is the -------. 18th century Highland -----s were practical form-follows-function things, like the ----s and ------s carried by the working cowboys and frontiersmen of the mid 19th century.

High Victorian Highland ------ had become as much jewellery as -----, made with engraved silver mountings and encrusted with jewels.

In the 20th century one sees the same thing with ---s, western holsters, and western saddles, rich with engraved silver and a far cry from the practical simplicity of the things used by the working cowboys of old.

(Sorry any mention of -------- will get me censured.)

**Taskr** · 29th June 17, 09:08 AM

IMO we have to be fair to Jock's comment of people playing Scots in the entirety of the context. Its not a judgement, it is a statement. People will wear what they wear. It is no different than the tuxedos and business suits donned in ways that have the wearer making their own statement of style though some of us shake our heads wondering why they bothered taking the time to ruin perfectly good clothing. Might even wonder if they are playing at being something/someone.

No one wants to or need be "told" what to wear or how to wear it outside of corporate/uniformed services. We take the advice we seek as we choose. And others will choose how to view our decisions. Neither is correct as neither is incorrect.

**deloceano** · 29th June 17, 10:57 PM

I'm new to X-marks the Scot, although I have been wearing kilts in different settings for years.

I'm Australian with Sottish heritage, which I feel quite connected to and proud of, and am engaged in culture through music (fiddle player), having also lived for a while in Nova Scotia.

I don't want to sound too critical, but I do feel that some points in this discussion (sorry to single you out Jock, I'm sure you mean well but it is your comments that stand out) make me question whether coming to X marks the Scot is the best decision. It appears that if I am not wearing trad highland wear in exactly the way and settings that I "should", then I am considered a phony, or in bad taste. This seems to be quite elitist to me, and I would like to think that this community forum is somewhere that people can express their own individuality, - where discussion of "correct" traditional wear can also happily intersect with discussion of more expressive wearing of kilts.

Again, sorry if I'm overstepping here, but I would like to think that the forum community is not so staid that there is only one correct viewpoint.