Military Box Pleats

[figheadair]

Lining and steeking are different things. Steeking (in a 4 yard box pleat) is to reduce lateral stress on the wool and in a high yardage knife pleat to prevent sagging of the pleats. lining is cotton (usually - I am doing a silk one next week) to make it more comfortable and absorb some sweat (for comfort). Canvas against the skin (or even through a shirt) can irritate the skin.

My point was that neither were used historically; ergo neither are necessary today. 🤔

[Barb T]

To add to Peter's comment about historical kilts, I believe I am correct in saying that historical 4 yard box pleated kilts did not have canvas or stabilizer, either. At least that's what I remember from learning how Matt Newsome makes box pleated kilts. As many of us have said many times here on the Forum, there's more than one way to make a kilt. When Matt and I wrote the box pleat supplement to The Art of Kiltmaking, we discussed whether the instructions should be with or without canvas and stabilizer, because I put canvas and stabilizer in and Matt doesn't. His way is more historical, mine is parallel to the instructions in The Art of Kiltmaking. He was fine with having parallel instructions, so that's what we did.

I think this points up three things, one of which is related to Michael's post above. 1) Matt and, of course originally, Bob Martin have been incredibly generous over the years in sharing how to make traditional box pleated kilts. If people have a close-guild mentality, these kinds of traditional crafts and skills can be simply lost. All of us benefit from openness and sharing. 2) There is no one right way to make a kilt. Uber-traditional/historical kilts will look different both inside and outside from modern kilts. Someone as talented and generous as Matt is OK with someone else making a modern box-pleated kilt with different internal construction than one patterned after a historical kilt, and he's flexible and not insistent on "the one right way". Also, some constructions are sturdier than others, and some are faster and less expensive to produce. Doesn't make one right and one wrong - it simply means that you need to know what you are buying. 3) Even with modern trad 8-yard knife-pleated kilts, there is no one right construction technique, and outstanding kilts can be made in different ways. I've said quite a few times that I am in awe of Rocky's ability to machine stitch perfect pleats from the inside (he hates to hand sew). Some people baste all the pleats first and then stitch them. Some people stitch pleats one at a time, like I do. The overall look and durability at the end is pretty much the same, and insisting that there is "one right way" is silly.

[Michael A]

Yep. I don't use drop diethyl ether anaesthetics either, although that could be considered a more traditional anaesthetic, despite the laryngospasm, vomiting, shivering, cardiac arrhythmias, and other complications it produces.

I am trying new or different techniques just for the sake of it. Right now I am trying a "reverse kilt". I am going to make one for my mother-in-law and she wants it left-lapping. So I am doing a toddler kilt first as practice, because I am basically making a left-handed kilt. I have also experimented with the technique of basting first then stitching. It's quite different and I haven't done enough pleats to know if it is for me yet.

[Barb T]

Right now I am trying a "reverse kilt". I am going to make one for my mother-in-law and she wants it left-lapping. So I am doing a toddler kilt first as practice, because I am basically making a left-handed kilt.

Did you see this thread? http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...d-works-83767/

Works for me when I have to stitch pleats that fold toward the apron instead of the underapron (either in the kind of kilt you describe or in half the pleats of a Kingussie or reverse Kingussie).

[Michael A]

Yes but I am eccentrically committed to wearing a kilt all day every day for a year for my charity so I can't pin it to jeans! I will give it a go when I can wear pants again (up to $7500 now). This is what I did in the meantime.



But with this one being a toddler kilt I am making from scraps as practice for my mother-in-law's, with the dell being only 3.75", the vice got tedious, so I ended up just putting more pins in and stretching+pinching between each and every stitch. I think I will use it for the larger kilt though.

[Barb T]

Sounds reasonable!

[derosa]

To add to Peter's comment about historical kilts, I believe I am correct in saying that historical 4 yard box pleated kilts did not have canvas or stabilizer, either. At least that's what I remember from learning how Matt Newsome makes box pleated kilts. As many of us have said many times here on the Forum, there's more than one way to make a kilt. When Matt and I wrote the box pleat supplement to The Art of Kiltmaking, we discussed whether the instructions should be with or without canvas and stabilizer, because I put canvas and stabilizer in and Matt doesn't. His way is more historical, mine is parallel to the instructions in The Art of Kiltmaking. He was fine with having parallel instructions, so that's what we did.

What keeps it from pulling apart then? Just the pleats stitched to each other? Seems like there would still be distorting of the aprons without something.

[Barb T]

What keeps it from pulling apart then? Just the pleats stitched to each other? Seems like there would still be distorting of the aprons without something.

With buckles and straps, it's possible to fasten a kilt really tightly and to put lots of stress on the stitching. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying that kilts didn't have buckles and straps in the era of historical box pleated kilts, so there would really be no stress on the stitching when someone was wearing the kilt - just wrapped around and held in place with a belt (or perhaps with pins, although I'm not sure whether the latter is correct or not). Either way, there wouldn't be much stress on the stitching.

[OC Richard]

wrapped around and held in place with a belt (or perhaps with pins, although I'm not sure whether the latter is correct or not).

AFAIK some military kilts were pinned until fairly recent times. I'll have to find it, but I'm sure that I saw a WWII piper where you can see the pins.

AFAIK neither civilians nor military wore belts under their jackets/waistcoats to hold a kilt up. I believe this to be a modern idea.

[Barb T]

Thanks for confirming this!