Clan tartan ties, unforgivable sin?

[Jack Daw]

When I still wore a suit to work, I would wear one of my clan tartan ties, but I never wore those ties with my kilt. As my avatar reveals, I do wear tartan above the waist.

[Dollander]

I'm grateful for all the advice I have received here, so here it goes. Why would you wear a tartan tie with your kilt! Is 8 yards of tartan not enough for one outfit!!!???!!!

But seriously, I wear a neck tie to compliment and set off an outfit. When you are wearing a navy blue suit do you wear a tie in exactly the same colour, with no stripe or pattern? If you have grey harris tweed jacket and slacks on, do you wear a tie that exactly matches the tweed? No? Well for the same reason, you wear a tie that sets off the outfit. Now to be honest, when I wear my navy suit, I wear my Lamont tartan tie, because it sets it off.

..and I hate to say it, but the picture of Sir Sean is ... just wrong!

When your jacket and trousers match, then of course you want your tie to be a different color. Likewise you wouldn’t want to wear a tartan tie with a full tartan suit. But when it’s a kilt with a black/tweed/etc. jacket…I just really don’t get this mentality that tartan accessories will somehow render one’s kilt invisible.

I posted that picture of Sean Connery to show someone who is widely known for being fiercely proud of not only his heritage, but his very identity as a Scotsman, wearing what so many diaspora "Scots” insist is an atrocity. Are you gonna tell him of all people that he’s wearing his country’s national dress incorrectly? I wasn’t even paying attention to the pairing of the long tie with a PC waistcoat. But since it was brought up, is there any real aesthetic reason why it’s such an abomination? And sorry, but I’m too antiauthoritarian (socially speaking) to accept “It’s just not done.” as an answer. Uniforms are for the military…

[Terry Searl]

When your jacket and trousers match, then of course you want your tie to be a different color. Likewise you wouldn’t want to wear a tartan tie with a full tartan suit. But when it’s a kilt with a black/tweed/etc. jacket…I just really don’t get this mentality that tartan accessories will somehow render one’s kilt invisible.

I posted that picture of Sean Connery to show someone who is widely known for being fiercely proud of not only his heritage, but his very identity as a Scotsman, wearing what so many diaspora "Scots” insist is an atrocity. Are you gonna tell him of all people that he’s wearing his country’s national dress incorrectly? I wasn’t even paying attention to the pairing of the long tie with a PC waistcoat. But since it was brought up, is there any real aesthetic reason why it’s such an abomination? And sorry, but I’m too antiauthoritarian (socially speaking) to accept “It’s just not done.” as an answer. Uniforms are for the military…

Looking at the old Photos of gentlemen wearing Kilted attire, NOT the military photos, and basing Traditional kilted attire on that .....to me in this day and age they almost look like costumes.....I know they aren't but to persuade the NEWBIES wearing a kilt that is what they should strive for isn't necessarily what will attract young fellows to wearing a kilt......In those photos what was worn 100, 75, or even 50 years ago was considered smart wear not necessarily traditional.....the young fellows today want to look smart in this time period now......It might be that by not wearing what the OLD Guard says is Traditional, they aren't being Traditional, but in 50 years or maybe even less, they may very well be considered traditional....Is there a distinct line or time frame that differentiates Traditional and Contemporary?...... just my opinion though

[Jock Scot]

I wouldn't mind betting that most of us might make an effort to dress appropriately when visiting our respective seats of government, wherever that might be. It is a matter of courtesy and respect. The House of Lords is probably one of the most historic, traditional, conservative(small "c") places in the World and is a place where traditions, procedures and doing the right thing is part of everyday life within those august walls. If you dislike that, you want to see what they wear and do on State Occasions!!!

Three things come to mind when reading this thread, which I feel would help no end. These are not criticisms but they are I hope constructive observations.

Firstly, it really does help if the person asking for the advice gives a more in depth indication of where the prospective attire is going to be worn.

Secondly, as can be seen in this thread it actually does matter "what is done and what is not done" and what may go in the USA or the UK or anywhere else WiLL be on occasion, different and sometimes very different. It has nothing to do with fashion, or even on occasion personal preference and is everything to do with, National, institutional sensibilities and requirements.

Thirdly, those of us giving advice, have a duty to give the best and most accurate advice that we can possibly give. And yes, there have been all sorts of useful advice given in good faith, but antiauthoritarian, fashion choices are not always helpful and incorrect advice is even less helpful as demonstrated in this thread. After that, it is entirely down to the chap who has asked the question to make his decisions accordingly on what he is going to wear, based perhaps, on advice given here.

[Father Bill]

Yes you can do “that which is simply not done” any time you like. You can also have those round you who know the subtleties look at you and say to themselves, “What an ***” and form negative opinions about kilts and those who wear them based on the fact that they themselves do know and the *** doesn’t.

In some parts of the world, the motto is “I can do whatever the heck I want,” and that may be fine there, but those parts of the world are few and far between and it’s the reason that the rest of the world looks down on them with carefully concealed (sometimes) contempt. Knowing the right thing and doing it is useful everywhere else. I assume that’s why the question was asked.

[LKM]

I wasn’t even paying attention to the pairing of the long tie with a PC waistcoat. But since it was brought up, is there any real aesthetic reason why it’s such an abomination? And sorry, but I’m too antiauthoritarian (socially speaking) to accept “It’s just not done.” as an answer. Uniforms are for the military…

As it has been mentioned by others, it is more fashion then tradition. Fashion is a personal thing that needs to be fit to the individual and while I find that this style of tie with a Prince Charlie is not for me I would not say that someone else can not do so, nor would I consider another persons fashion as an abomination just because I do not like the look. I know my opinion was given only as an opinion and not as a rule, and I assume that others were doing the same. Personally, I would rather go with a tweed jacket over a Prince Charlie as that is more my personal style.

I am also antiauthoritarian and yes uniforms are for the military and pipe bands not civilians or solo pipers.

[Moses]

I see this was posted for advice under Kilt advice, and not Traditional wear, and advice was given. That advice should be inclusive of Traditional wear but not only that; and as the OP has said he opted to wear the tie. I am sure it best represented the wearers taste and fashion sensibilities and looked good. Like the title of the OP queried "...unforgivable sin?"...so to that I would say No.

I would not exactly do that nor do I believe it "Traditional Highland Civilian Dress" - But I think the vast majority, not having specific knowledge, may perceive it that way. I think it is close enough to THCD that is might perpetuate some images that are on the edge of the slippery slope into costume wear. That being said, I do wear my kilt in a contemporary way sometimes also so To Each His Own.

The previous picture of the two men in the Gordon kilts may well have been at an a specific House of Gordon event where the one man decided to specifically wear all his clan gear??? Also there are clearly different considerations for Celebrities.

To be clear, I do not think it a costume or unacceptable but wearing a kilt and matching tartan necktie and a jacket alone is simply not my taste. My brother wears his Gordon tie but doesn't have a kilt and I have thought a few times I would wear that tie with a nicely contrasting sweater while kilted. It would be less area of view-able tartan so the fact that it isn't an exact match would not be very obvious. To me, according to my personal taste, breaking it up is a better aesthetic.

[Wareyin]

Yes you can do “that which is simply not done” any time you like. You can also have those round you who know the subtleties look at you and say to themselves, “What an ***” and form negative opinions about kilts and those who wear them based on the fact that they themselves do know and the *** doesn’t.

In some parts of the world, the motto is “I can do whatever the heck I want,” and that may be fine there, but those parts of the world are few and far between and it’s the reason that the rest of the world looks down on them with carefully concealed (sometimes) contempt. Knowing the right thing and doing it is useful everywhere else. I assume that’s why the question was asked.

You seem to think it likely that there are those who know the subtleties of Highland Dress, yet are also easily swayed into having a negative opinion about kilts in general because someone wearing a kilt knows less of those subtleties. I wonder how many people who don't wear a kilt themselves are all that knowledgeable about Highland Dress?

[Tobus]

The previous picture of the two men in the Gordon kilts may well have been at an a specific House of Gordon event where the one man decided to specifically wear all his clan gear??? Also there are clearly different considerations for Celebrities.

If you look closely, you'll see the gentleman in question (at right in the photo) has feathers in his bonnet. That is the late Douglas Gordon, 12th Marquis of Huntly, former Chief of Clan Gordon. He isn't just some random chap in his Gordon clan gear. I leave it to the readers to determine whether he has the street cred to pull off wearing a tartan tie with a kilt.

[Terry Searl]

You seem to think it likely that there are those who know the subtleties of Highland Dress, yet are also easily swayed into having a negative opinion about kilts in general because someone wearing a kilt knows less of those subtleties. I wonder how many people who don't wear a kilt themselves are all that knowledgeable about Highland Dress?

and I'm sure there are lots that do wear Highland Dress that know less of those subtleties as well.....we can be grateful that there are people on this site that who like to make the distinctions known but they should do so in a kind way and not come on as the ultimate authority.... I would never think to tell another Canadian how he should wear his Canadian attire, if there is one, which I doubt, because we are such a vast country with such a mix of cultures but like I said before we should be grateful for those that can tell us the differences, What we do with that knowledge and how we interpret it is up to ourselves really .......again that is just my opinion