Clan tartan ties, unforgivable sin?

**O'Callaghan** · 15th December 17, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Terry Searl

Sometimes the kilt police on this site get a bit ahead of themselves.....but things are usually forgiven by almost everyone if you are an icon such as Mr Connery here .....I'm still in favour of doing what makes ya' happy as long as you do it with respect to the kilt....Tradition has to start someplace and as "the old guard" die off who knows maybe a new tradition will start with yourself.....just my opinion though

You have to realise that Sean Connery is an Edinburgh Scot of Irish extraction, and AFAIK has no clan, either Scottish or Irish. OTOH, he is a Scot, and if he wears a matching tie and kilt, however loosely the word matching is taken to mean, it can't be all bad.

**O'Callaghan** · 15th December 17, 07:03 PM

Several have noted that Sean Connery is not a highlander. This was perhaps my point in noting that he came from Edinburgh, but I neglected to take into account that not everyone is knowledgeable about the geography.

**Bruce Scott** · 15th December 17, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by O'Callaghan

You have to realise that Sean Connery is an Edinburgh Scot of Irish extraction, and AFAIK has no clan, either Scottish or Irish. OTOH, he is a Scot, and if he wears a matching tie and kilt, however loosely the word matching is taken to mean, it can't be all bad.

His mother was a Mclean and his paternal grandmother a McNab.

Much more here:
https://www.scottishroots.com/people/sean.php

**kingandrew** · 16th December 17, 05:52 PM

I think the thread has provided ample proof that wearing a tartan necktie with your kilt is not an "unforgivable sin," but is not a popular practice with most X Marks members.

It seems disingenuous to argue that it's practice jarring to the traditions of highland dress. After all, looking at "Highlanders of Scotland" and any number of Victorian era portraits, we certainly see gentlemen wearing multiple matching tartan items at once: kilt, vest, jacket, plaid, hose. I will grant that most ties in that era seem to be black, but the idea that tartan accessories with a kilt is an innovation is clearly inaccurate. However, some might plausibly argue that such usage is more "historic" than "traditional" at this point, since the practice has become much less common since the Second World War.

I tend to favor historic looks myself, but I tend to be that way in Saxon dress as well. I was a "young fogey" until I got old enough to drop the "young" part. I got married in a frock coat and a top hat, carrying my great-great grandfather's walking stick. So I'm an outlier.

Although I own many straight ties, I almost always wear a bow tie instead. In addition to having a certain panache, they are more practical for me, in that I don't have to worry about whether they are too long and they won't fall out of my jacket and into anything if I bend over. I have certainly worn a tartan bow tie on occasion with my kilt, with no negative effects. However, any bow tie will benefit from the separation principle mentioned above, i.e. the tie won't be touching the kilt, but will have an expanse of shirt, vest, sweater between the two pieces of tartan. Most of the time, I wear a color that compliments the outfit as a whole.

Summary: It's not a sin, but not popular either. Do as you see fit with the outfit and occasion.

Andrew

**FossilHunter** · 17th December 17, 05:52 PM

I have a couple thoughts on this thread so far. First I will address the tartan ties.

As others have mentioned, the tartan tie is not an "unforgivable sin" but is not very traditional. I have seen pictures of highland chiefs wearing tartan neckties but those pictures tend to be from highland events and they are a bit "costumed up" with bonnets, plaids, and cromachs. In short, they are going all out for the event and it certainly should not be taken to reflect what they would consider normal day wear.

Now, it being traditional may or may not matter to you. It's simply something to be aware of. If wearing the kilt outside of the highland tradition, I think the next serious consideration is simply whether or not it looks good. That is subjective, of course but it's worth considering. Liam looks good in his photo so perhaps it's the particular tartan as well. McMurdo has a tartan suit that also looks really nice but I don't think it'd look as good with, say, the "loud McLeod" tartan. My kilt is in MacDonald modern and is fairly dark green and blue and very bright red, I don't think it'd look good with a matching tie.

The other thing I'd like to address is the picture of Sean Connery. I like the man as an actor and he was the best James Bond but a fashion icon he is not (remember, in Bond he was dressed by a costumer). You don't wear a long tie with a tuxedo, why would you wear one with prince charlie? Celebrities are notoriously bad at dressing themselves. Look at any number of black or white tie events for actors or musicians, the fashion blogs love to point out all the poor choices they make. This applies to saxon wear in most cases but most photos I see of Scottish celebrities in kilts fall into the same trap of looking like they rented for a highschool prom.

It goes back to the idea that to break the rules, you first need to know them. That's the difference between someone who is a trendsetter and someone who is just ignorant. I think that if Mr. Connery had made the purposeful decision to wear a tartan bow tie or vest, he would have looked much better if still not traditional. The long tie with the short vest makes me suspect that he just asked for whatever tartan neckwear they offered at the rental shop.

And I doubt he was born knowing how to wear a kilt any more than he was born knowing how to distill whisky. It may be national dress but if he didn’t grow up wearing it (which our resident Highlanders say is common) there’s no reason to think he knows better how to wear it than anyone outwith Scotland, especially on this forum.

**FossilHunter** · 17th December 17, 06:00 PM

Just in case it wasn't clear in my post. I don't care that Mr. Connery is wearing a tartan tie, only that he is wearing a long tie. It looks really bad to me with the low cut vest of the prince charlie.

If he wanted to wear a long tie he should have worn a high cut vest or at least a tartan bow tie.

This is a convention that is equally applicable in saxon dress with a tuxedo.

**Luke MacGillie** · 17th December 17, 07:09 PM

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So much teenage angst!

**Tobus** · 18th December 17, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by FossilHunter

The other thing I'd like to address is the picture of Sean Connery. I like the man as an actor and he was the best James Bond but a fashion icon he is not (remember, in Bond he was dressed by a costumer).

His back-story is very interesting. It is well documented that Sean Connery's career as James Bond very nearly failed due to his lack of refinement. Coming from his humble working-class background, he had no sense of style or manners. Ian Fleming, the creator of Bond, called him an "overgrown stuntman" and did not think he had the poise to be Commander Bond. It was Dana Broccoli (wife of producer Cubby Broccoli) who convinced her husband that Sean Connery had the sleek looks and charm for it, and it was Terence Young (director) who basically taught him how to appear refined. He quite literally educated Sean on how to walk, eat, and do everything differently than he previously knew. Between the training and the movie set's wardrobe department, he always appeared elegant and classy on film. It worked, and people loved it.

In many ways, Sean Connery's story is a wonderful example of how a boy from very modest means used his natural talents to rise to fame and wealth with the help of people who could put him in the right setting. He has done very well for himself through the years, and I have no doubt that he has been a role model for many people. I have nothing but respect for him in that regard, and I can forgive his sartorial clumsiness when I see it. With all that said, though, it's important that people understand his background for what it is and recognise that he still needs some help with the finer details of dressing properly.

**kingandrew** · 18th December 17, 07:58 AM

Fossilhunter,

I completely agree with you about the long tie with the Prince Charlie and low waistcoat. I would also say that if he had used a tartan waistcoat it would be unusual, but far from unprecedented. And you are right that all too often celebrity kilt-wearers in the news look like prom-goers in their uninspired rental gear.

Luke,

The "teen angst" gentleman in the photo you posted has done a bravura job of mixing three different patterns beautifully, then brought all the color themes together with his bonnet to literally top it off! It is a tour de force and he makes it look effortless. Well done!

However, I do wish we could see his kilt

Andrew

**Luke MacGillie** · 18th December 17, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by kingandrew

Luke,

The "teen angst" gentleman in the photo you posted has done a bravura job of mixing three different patterns beautifully, then brought all the color themes together with his bonnet to literally top it off! It is a tour de force and he makes it look effortless. Well done!

However, I do wish we could see his kilt

Andrew

That gentleman, and I use the term loosely, is me! The kilt is the same Lamont Ancient as the tie. I am somewhat lacking in the arms department, probably the only time you will hear me say that!