Black Tie Combinations

[Terry Searl]

Terry, me neither �� but I suppose, back in the day, a 'sturdy pair of shoes' was de rigeur for a brisk country stroll! Why they have developed as the evening shoe of choice(?) I am uncertain, but as a military man, I am with Steve in that brogue =less formal and plain, highly bulled (mirror shined, spit polished) shoes (or, '' brothel creepers'' as my Naval father coined them��) are the formal norm.

Yes from what seems like a sturdy functional style of shoe for walking in the wet and mud, why they evolved to a formal dress shoe is a wee bit strange, but then look how the kilt itself has evolved. A perfect woven cloth for shedding the inclement weather of the highlands to all kinds of materials and styles now. I really enjoy wearing my kilts and do so at almost every opportunity but the cost of them and the cost to clean them means they will never be "abused" by where and when I wear them (I use the term "abused" advisedly before anybody jumps on me for using it).

I sometimes think my mind is becoming more dependent on logic rather than thinking "outside the box" hence why I query things that others might just take for granted and prefer a logical reason rather than just someone's opinion

I don't wear the Ghillie Brogues all that often, I much prefer my slip on shoes, for ease of putting on and taking off, but when I do wear them I do like them to be clean and polished. I have never attended any event more formal than a wedding so doubt I will ever break any rules regarding black tie or white tie
The brogueing does tend to make spit polishing harder to do than just a plain capped oxford but because they aren't worn very often I can usually get away with just a vigorous brushing between wearings

[Blaidd]

...brogueing! That's where bees' wax and bulling come in (once a Marine...... ) At the end of the day, it's like lawyers, you ask 2 different ones the same question, you get 3 different answers! Same with Cilt protocols....they differ across the piste. To me, anyone 'brave' enough to don the 'man's skirt' (yes I know, those that wear underwear, wear a skirt; those that don't wear a cilt....(and there's a moot point! ...and ....box!) ) should be permitted personal eccentricities

[Steve Ashton]

Ah terms again.

The term "Brothel Creepers" is usually referring to a type of shoe with a large, thick crepe sole and often with a suede top.



photo courtesy of the company that originated the style, George Cox ltd. via wikipedia.

[FossilHunter]

For the most part they will be seen as a little over the top for Black Tie. For the 1 kilt 10 looks thread I decided to wear ghillie brogues with diced hose for the Black Tie look and change to my buckle brogues for the White Tie. Here is the link:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-attire-46888/

Recently I tried Argyll hose and buckle brogues with my black argyll jacket



A wee while ago we were invited to a friends home for a Black Tie gathering and I decided to wear the buckle brogues and argyll hose, this time with my Prince Charlie



This was my outfit for Burns Night this year almost the same as the above but with a horsehair sporran



I will let you decide what is right for you but think this illustrates that it can be done. Your mileage may vary of course. Also White Tie is the most formal you can go and is most definitely a step above Black Tie.

I think the open tops of ghillies and buckle shoes go well well with patterned hose (argyle and diced).

Are your buckle brogues the ones from thistle shoes?

[FossilHunter]

Gentlemen,
This has been an outstanding thread!
If I may, some formal shirts have plain plackets and other have studs. Is there a protocol there, or is it simply personal preference? I prefer a winged collar, but it's placket is fitted for studs.
Cheers

I think onyx or plain silver studs are most appropriate for black tie regardless of whether it is with a tuxedo or kilted equivalent. Buttons just aren’t fancy enough.

[Terry Searl]

Ah terms again.

The term "Brothel Creepers" is usually referring to a type of shoe with a large, thick crepe sole and often with a suede top.



photo courtesy of the company that originated the style, George Cox ltd. via wikipedia.

I never heard that term before so looked it up and you are right they are nothing like a shoe that might require a spit polish.....when I was a lad we wore a slip on style of shoe called Tee Pee creepers which were a form of a moccasen with a harder sole

[Blaidd]

Ah terms again.

The term "Brothel Creepers" is usually referring to a type of shoe with a large, thick crepe sole and often with a suede top.



photo courtesy of the company that originated the style, George Cox ltd. via wikipedia.

Yes Steve, they are the same Creepers! I think my father was referring to the mirror shine, which was placed under the skirt (if worn....?) of ladies in said 'brothel...'. You can imagine the rest! for Crepe??? I think they look all right to me.... (think about it.....)

[Blaidd]

I think onyx or plain silver studs are most appropriate for black tie regardless of whether it is with a tuxedo or kilted equivalent. Buttons just aren’t fancy enough.

For military purposes, we go for gold studs....or, if you have lost any during 'mess rugby', the old split pin treasury pin, when 'Brasso-ed' look exactly correct.......and you don't lose them

[FossilHunter]

Terry, me neither 😂 but I suppose, back in the day, a 'sturdy pair of shoes' was de rigeur for a brisk country stroll! Why they have developed as the evening shoe of choice(?) I am uncertain, but as a military man, I am with Steve in that brogue =less formal and plain, highly bulled (mirror shined, spit polished) shoes (or, '' brothel creepers'' as my Naval father coined them😂) are the formal norm.

There are a few conventions in highland dress that go against the formality conventions of Saxon dress that cause a lot of hand wringing on this side of the Atlantic.

In Saxon dress, tweed is casual but in highland dress it is the equivalent of a tighter weave business suit. Same with checked shirts and brogued shoes.

I think they are probably influenced by the historically poor and rural aspect of much of the highlands. Passing down well made items discourages matching of metals or colors, the highlands are damp and cool so tweed is a practical day wear fabric. Brogues are traditionally country shoes.

I think a lot makes sense when one considers the world in which modern highland dress developed.

[Blaidd]

There are a few conventions in highland dress that go against the formality conventions of Saxon dress that cause a lot of hand wringing on this side of the Atlantic.

In Saxon dress, tweed is casual but in highland dress it is the equivalent of a tighter weave business suit. Same with checked shirts and brogued shoes.

I think they are probably influenced by the historically poor and rural aspect of much of the highlands. Passing down well made items discourages matching of metals or colors, the highlands are damp and cool so tweed is a practical day wear fabric. Brogues are traditionally country shoes.

I think a lot makes sense when one considers the world in which modern highland dress developed.

Good comments indeed. As a military man, tweed is a more relaxed 'sports coat', but practical in many circumstances, and has become the 'off duty officer dress' There will always be discrepancies and/or divergences from culture/opinion I think. However, at the end of the day (and this is a VERY tongue in cheek comment), we're all Celts. We wear Cilts/Kilts. .....and it really annoys the FEBs off (that TLA you will not find in the FAQs....and probably shouldn't be aired in polite company )

I just love the fact that we do what we do!