Liverpool Scottish, some interesting images

[Allan Thomson]

As far as I can see there's not a thread for the Liverpool Scottish so as I have gathered a few interesting images (one of which is from my family) for some discussion and analysis.

Two are of the Territorial Unit detraining at Peel Station on the Isle of Man ready to March to Knockaloe farm where they had regular camps (this later became an interment camp for "Enemy Aliens" and had its own railway system built, but in the days of use as a camp ground a bit of a march was necessitated. As a stab in the dark I would put the date as sometime post Boer War and Pre WWI. Interesting to note that the unit appears to be in the cut away jacket, the pipe band in doublets, grey spats and all wearing the wide awake hat turned up at the brim (curious the pipe band appears to be wearing the doublet and pipers plaid but still in the wide brimmed hat?).

However in the second image it's noteable that there's one distinct figure wearing a glengarry, with white spats, lighter hose and a kilt which appears lighter (grey?) in comparison to the others and no tartan is discernable making me wonder if he was a London Scottish Soldier attached to the unit?

The other image is a photo from the family and my apologies for the quality as it's a photograph of a photograph of an old photograph, but I think it's interesting to see the jacket is not cut for the sporran. I believe it was a South African period Jacket and the Kilt was possibly one borrowed from a friend for the photograph to be taken. I've seen a few images of the Liverpool Scottish in the 1st World War wearing similar jackets with the kilt so I guess it's not unique but I think it allows for a bit of discussion.

The final image should need no explanation, not really for discussion, but I don't think it's right to start a thread about the Liverpool Scottish without at least one shot of its medical officer who preferred to wear the glengarry of the regiment rather than his regulation RAMC Cap (was this practice carried out by other Medical Officers attached to Scottish Units or just a personal bit of 'rebellion' by Chavasse?

[figheadair]

The final image should need no explanation, not really for discussion, but I don't think it's right to start a thread about the Liverpool Scottish without at least one shot of its medical officer who preferred to wear the glengarry of the regiment rather than his regulation RAMC Cap (was this practice carried out by other Medical Officers attached to Scottish Units or just a personal bit of 'rebellion' by Chavasse?

Chavasse, one of two RAMC double VC winners, both MOs, out of only three VC and Bar ever awarded. The Citations for these non-combatant officers are humbling.

His wearing of the glengarry was not unique, nor is it today. The MO of a non-Army Medical Services' regiment generally wears the bonnet/beret of the unit to which he/she is attached, not just Scottish regiments but also the likes of the Guards, Paras etc.

[Allan Thomson]

Chavasse, one of two RAMC double VC winners, both MOs, out of only three VC and Bar ever awarded. The Citations for these non-combatant officers are humbling.

His wearing of the glengarry was not unique, nor is it today. The MO of a non-Army Medical Services' regiment generally wears the bonnet/beret of the unit to which he/she is attached, not just Scottish regiments but also the likes of the Guards, Paras etc.

Thankyou Figheadair interested to hear your comments, I'd always been given the impression wearing the Glengarry was something he'd done to make the point that he was prepared to suffer in the hardships as the men he looked after (and because he preferred it to the conventional RAMC cap). But obviously that wasn't the case - was it something that was done butcould have been frowned upon or is that just a misconception based on the part of the legend?

Indeed Chavasse was one of my heroes from an early age and my father spoke of him and he said he grandfather had often spoken of him as well (said he had probably saved his life once). In addition to the Liverpool Scottish he is also claimed and held in high esteem by 208 field hospital which is based in Liverpool. An incredible man in many ways, recognising shell shock, how to treat it and making waves at high levels to improve the life of those troops he cared for (and others who were not under his direct responsibility). It's ambigious as to whether he never received promotion beyond Captain because of the way he stuck his nose out or because of his insistence with staying on the front. Also an accomplished athlete and Scholar, qualifying for the 1908 Olympic Games and getting a 1st from Oxford.

Incidentally but if I recollect correctly but I think when he was fatally wounded he was eventually able to crawl to Martin-Leake's aid post where he died?

[figheadair]

Thankyou Figheadair interested to hear your comments, I'd always been given the impression wearing the Glengarry was something he'd done to make the point that he was prepared to suffer in the hardships as the men he looked after (and because he preferred it to the conventional RAMC cap). But obviously that wasn't the case - was it something that was done but could have been frowned upon or is that just a misconception based on the part of the legend?

It's standard practise now and I think it was then too, so probably just a misconception.

It's ambigious as to whether he never received promotion beyond Captain because of the way he stuck his nose out or because of his insistence with staying on the front. Also an accomplished athlete and Scholar, qualifying for the 1908 Olympic Games and getting a 1st from Oxford.

Incidentally but if I recollect correctly but I think when he was fatally wounded he was eventually able to crawl to Martin-Leake's aid post where he died?

I think that MOs that stayed 'in-roll' at the front rather then going down the commend route tended to stay at their commissioned rank. Ditto Martin-Leake who served through and survived the war as a Capt. I don't know whether he was at the Third Battle of Ypres and therefore in the same sector when Chavasse was mortally wounded.

[Allan Thomson]

It's standard practise now and I think it was then too, so probably just a misconception.



I think that MOs that stayed 'in-roll' at the front rather then going down the commend route tended to stay at their commissioned rank. Ditto Martin-Leake who served through and survived the war as a Capt. I don't know whether he was at the Third Battle of Ypres and therefore in the same sector when Chavasse was mortally wounded.

Years ago I read the biographies of both of them and I'm sure I recollect something to the effect of Chavasse having ended up at Martin Leakes Dressing station. Unfortunately I don't have access to the books to fact check as they belonged to my father.

[OC Richard]

Their Full Dress was interesting, a khaki doublet with red piping and facings

[Allan Thomson]

Nice to see one in Colour OC Richard, I'm guaessing that is the same style of doublet as the pipe band has in the Peel Railway Station Pictures?

[Good Egg]

This is an interesting picture. That looks like a single colour kilt. I've heard of Canadians having khaki kilts but not in the British Army.

He's also wearing long puttees, I've only ever seen kilted soldiers in short puttees.

Many militia regiments adopted grey well before the regular army abandoned red. The London Scottish are perhaps the most famous exponents but the whole of the South London Brigade was known as the Grey Brigade because of their grey uniforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/140th_...ondon)_Brigade They were not the only ones.

http://www.valeofleven.org.uk/images/wars/DRV558.jpg

[Allan Thomson]

Curious Good Egg as you on the one hand said you didn't realise British units had single colour kilts but then you say you're aware of the London Scottish? Their kilts were all one colour - the Hodden Grey.

[The Q]

Two Pictures of the Liverpool Scottish Marching out from Ludgershall Station, Wiltshire, in 1907. Ludgershall and Tidworth Stations were the main stations for disembarcation for exercises on Salisbury plain.
I've walked Up that road many times...