P.C. jacket questions

[gsmacleod]

I've never really worried about where the tails fall do make sure that there is no shirt showing between kilt and waistcoat/coatee.

My PC is a little shorter than I would like but as long as my kilt doesn't slide down, I can keep any shirt from showing through the gap.

IMG_20190821_134815~2.jpg

This one is from my wedding day; you can see no shirt but there is the belt that the hire shop insisted should be worn (that and the cream hose are my regrets from that day!)

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Shane

[Steve Ashton]

I find that there are fewer and fewer black tie, tuxedo appropriate, events left to attend. The kilt community is one of the holdovers where you see formal wear worn. Perhaps due to all those who have and still want an excuse to wear their Prince Charlie coatees.
I know that I have been to many kilt events where Prince Charlie's were worn. But these were not actually black tie, formal events. For example a Burns Dinner where along with some dressed in Prince Charlies you will also see Argyles with long ties, shirts and vest, sweaters or jumpers and other levels of dress. In a few, the Prince Charlies sort of stuck out as the exception among the others.
I attend an annual Highland Games and have asked a few who wear Prince Charlie to a daytime, outdoor event why they chose that form of dress. "It's traditional" is the most common reply. I suspect that this would not be how those who lived in the time and place that their "traditional" is supposed to emulate would have dressed.

So if you own a Prince Charlie and want to wear it for your own reasons, then go for it.

But please, do not be influenced by the horrid rental pictures you see all over the web. The secret to wearing a Prince Charlie is not the jacket, but wearing the kilt in the manner it was designed to be worn.

Here is how I dressed to the only kilt event I have ever attended, where the invitation specified "Black Tie with full ribbons and medals".

[Jock Scot]

I find that there are fewer and fewer black tie, tuxedo appropriate, events left to attend. The kilt community is one of the holdovers where you see formal wear worn. Perhaps due to all those who have and still want an excuse to wear their Prince Charlie coatees.
I know that I have been to many kilt events where Prince Charlie's were worn. But these were not actually black tie, formal events. For example a Burns Dinner where along with some dressed in Prince Charlies you will also see Argyles with long ties, shirts and vest, sweaters or jumpers and other levels of dress. In a few, the Prince Charlies sort of stuck out as the exception among the others.
I attend an annual Highland Games and have asked a few who wear Prince Charlie to a daytime, outdoor event why they chose that form of dress. "It's traditional" is the most common reply. I suspect that this would not be how those who lived in the time and place that their "traditional" is supposed to emulate would have dressed.

So if you own a Prince Charlie and want to wear it for your own reasons, then go for it.

But please, do not be influenced by the horrid rental pictures you see all over the web. The secret to wearing a Prince Charlie is not the jacket, but wearing the kilt in the manner it was designed to be worn.

Here is how I dressed to the only kilt event I have ever attended, where the invitation specified "Black Tie with full ribbons and medals".

Exactly so. Well said.

[Brian Rose]

I did run across a wing collar shirt at a thrift store. I suspect it's from a tuxedo as the front of the shirt is not flat. Checking the web, they are described as pleats. Is that typical of wing collar shirts?

[Steve Ashton]

The pleated front tux shirts are one of those things that you hate or you simply wear because that is what the salesperson at the rental shop told you was what they had.

I have never and will never wear a pleated front tux shirt. I was taught that simple equals elegant and timeless. Pleats are just to close to the ruffles of the '70's

Wing collar or stand-and-fall collar is a bit of "what ever".

But what differentiates a tux shirt from a dress shirt is that a tux shirt has no buttons. The front uses studs and the cuffs, cufflinks that match the studs. (keep your fancy birthday cufflinks for your French cuffed dress shirts.)

[FossilHunter]

I did run across a wing collar shirt at a thrift store. I suspect it's from a tuxedo as the front of the shirt is not flat. Checking the web, they are described as pleats. Is that typical of wing collar shirts?

Pleated tuxedo shirts are a perfectly acceptable choice. Wide pleats have been used in tuxedo shirts since the 30s and the more common narrower pleats since the 40s. These would be shirts with a turn down collar.

https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/tu...tuxedo-shirts/

The wing collared, pleated shirt is, however, an invention of the 70s.

[OC Richard]

I will point out that the Prince Charlie Coatee was, from its introduction around 1900 up until the Rise Of The Kilt Hire Industry in the 1970s, reckoned to be an Evening Dress jacket and was intended to be worn, and was worn, following the customary Evening Dress norms of the period.

That is:
-kilt
-Evening Dress jacket
-white shirt
-bow tie, or lace jabot
-Evening Dress sporran (seal w/ silver top, or alternatively long white hair w/ silver top)
-tartan or diced full hose
-buckled brogues

The pipers below wearing Prince Charlie Coatees are in ordinary Evening Dress from the knees up, but in ordinary Day Dress from the knees down, as Day and Evening dress were done c1910-1970

[Jock Scot]

I will point out that the Prince Charlie Coatee was, from its introduction around 1900 up until the Rise Of The Kilt Hire Industry in the 1970s, reckoned to be an Evening Dress jacket and was intended to be worn, and was worn, following the customary Evening Dress norms of the period.

That is:
-kilt
-Evening Dress jacket
-white shirt
-bow tie, or lace jabot
-Evening Dress sporran (seal w/ silver top, or alternatively long white hair w/ silver top)
-tartan or diced full hose
-buckled brogues

Well yes and no. We need to remember that not all Evening Dress events are the same. In my experience since 1940, well ok, a couple of years later as I don't really remember my first few years. For example dressing for dinner at home really did/does not require the full rig compared to a dinner dance---invitation only---- at the local Baronial Hall.

Anyway, I am not sure if shortages and a make do with what you have got attitude of WW2 had an influence here, I suspect it did. Since that time, the lesser black tie events did/do not require "tartan or diced hose" or " buckled brogues" and it was/is not unusual for rather less gaudy dress sporrans to be worn. I would suggest a certain amount of common sense and practicality has prevailed since that time.

So for some of the less smart dress occasions these days, well polished oxfords, plain coloured hose(apart from white!!!) and rather less ornate sporrans are perfectly acceptable.

[RichardtheLarge]

I will point out that the Prince Charlie Coatee was, from its introduction around 1900 up until the Rise Of The Kilt Hire Industry in the 1970s, reckoned to be an Evening Dress jacket and was intended to be worn, and was worn, following the customary Evening Dress norms of the period.

That is:
-kilt
-Evening Dress jacket
-white shirt
-bow tie, or lace jabot
-Evening Dress sporran (seal w/ silver top, or alternatively long white hair w/ silver top)
-tartan or diced full hose
-buckled brogues

The pipers below wearing Prince Charlie Coatees are in ordinary Evening Dress from the knees up, but in ordinary Day Dress from the knees down, as Day and Evening dress were done c1910-1970

Any idea what is happening with John Burgess’ hose? I’ve never seen a pair with vertical stripes before.

Thank you for sharing this in any case—it looks like The ‘70s meets Highlandwear.