The joys and dangers of Ebay pipes

[OC Richard]

When I inspected these pipes, and especially when I re-did the hemp job, I realised that these pipes are exactly as they left the Kintail shop in 1981, with the original shop hemp job (funky as usual) the original drone reeds (cane) and the original bag (cowhide).

The silver was tarnished a bit, and the imitation ivory had yellowed a bit, but other than that they were straight from the box. The bag was as new and was perfectly airtight when I tried it.

I talked to the original owner, he said his father-in-law bought them in 1981 intending to learn to play but never did. They've been out of the box maybe ten times, he said.

These drones don't behave like Lawrie drones, so I had to experiment with tuning-slide positions, but with (original type) Kinnaird drone reeds these drones produce a big rich tone. They were a joy to play!

I've tried two other 1980s Kintails and they played just like this, so it's as expected. Grieg Sharp opened Kintail in 1971, so this set was made at the ten-year anniversary.

My thing with pipes is the same as with Highland Dress: if you're judicious and patient you can acquire fine things for a fraction of what they would cost new. These pipes were a thousand dollars, which I reckon was a tremendous bargain.

EDIT: I found that the tone-chamber (socket) on the Bass Midsection had two issues

1) The tone chamber had the "Coke bottle" narrowing of the bore under where the ferrule is. A pipemaker told me that perfectly straight/true tone-chambers leave the shop, then under certain weather conditions the tone-chamber expands slightly however the area confined by the ferrule cannot. Drones like this are a problem because even when hemped as tightly as possible once the hemp gets past the narrow bit under the ferrule suddenly the joint becomes loose.

2) The tone chamber was out of round. Drones like this are a problem because even when tightly hemped they can leak, making the drone unstable.

Happily I have a set of adjustable hand reamers and I've done these trueing jobs many times. I used to send my pipes off to a pipemaker to have the chambers trued, then he told me "you can do it yourself, I don't put it on the lathe, I do it with a hand reamer. They're just a few dollars". And so I have done ever since!

Yesterday I trued that chamber and the pipes are perfect now.

[OC Richard]

Wow MacLellan pipes for just over a thousand dollars. You almost never see them that low.

Yes they're a plain set but I'm sure they will have the big MacLellan sound.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MacLellan-b...YAAOSwA8FgRC8h

[OC Richard]

Here's a perfect example of the dangers that Ebay bagpipe buyers face.

This auction is getting bid higher and higher by people whom I'm guessing aren't all that knowledgeable about vintage pipes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L-M-Bagpipe...gAAOSwc2NgQX~m

Sellers are often ignorant about pipes, so it's up to the buyers to know what they're looking at. The sellers says the pipes are by L&M and of course L&M is a leather-works, making sporrans, belts, and pipe bags. It's very common for sellers to think that a name stamped on a bag is the maker of the pipes themselves.

That aside, let me throw it out to you all: what do you make of these pipes?

[WalesLax]

Here's a perfect example of the dangers that Ebay bagpipe buyers face.

This auction is getting bid higher and higher by people whom I'm guessing aren't all that knowledgeable about vintage pipes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L-M-Bagpipe...gAAOSwc2NgQX~m

Sellers are often ignorant about pipes, so it's up to the buyers to know what they're looking at. The sellers says the pipes are by L&M and of course L&M is a leather-works, making sporrans, belts, and pipe bags. It's very common for sellers to think that a name stamped on a bag is the maker of the pipes themselves.

That aside, let me throw it out to you all: what do you make of these pipes?

I reached out with a number of questions, but haven’t heard anything back yet. This is a charity selling something that was donated, so I go into it knowing that they likely won’t know much about the pipes and/or be able to answer many questions, so I try to ask fairly simple ones and give detailed instructions on the pictures and/or information I am looking for.

I personally don’t like the orange, and expect it to be Catalin, but you really can’t tell from the picture.

Rob

[WalesLax]

I reached out with a number of questions, but haven’t heard anything back yet. This is a charity selling something that was donated, so I go into it knowing that they likely won’t know much about the pipes and/or be able to answer many questions, so I try to ask fairly simple ones and give detailed instructions on the pictures and/or information I am looking for.

I personally don’t like the orange, and expect it to be Catalin, but you really can’t tell from the picture.

Rob

I just got a better picture from the seller - the pipes don't look terrible, but they are 100% from Pakistan. Probably better than the $100 sets on eBay and Amazon, but not something I am willing to take a chance on.


Rob

[EagleJCS]

If you take a close look at the picture, the inside lid of the case has a label. The bottom of the label tells us that the pipes are made by "Hakam Din, Sialkot, Pakistan with Grainger competition chanter".

That for me would be a starting point to try to find images of other pipes from the same maker for comparison, looking at the beading/combing and projecting mount profiles.

Now, the make of the pipes may have changed since the label was made since some people buy/sell/trade multiple sets over the course of their piping career. Others, like myself, do not.

[OC Richard]

If you take a close look at the picture, the inside lid of the case has a label. The bottom of the label tells us that the pipes are made by "Hakam Din, Sialkot, Pakistan with Grainger competition chanter".

I didn't even try to read that! My bad.

Looking at the pipes themselves strongly suggested that they were Pakistani.

Yes the mounts are Catalin, long used in Scotland. We're used to Pakistani pipes having dead-white plastic mounts, but older Pakistani pipes are often Catalin.

The main giveaways about the pipes being Pakistani were 1) the cords and 2) the surface of the wood.

But why are the cords a giveaway? Couldn't somebody get UK/NA pipes and put Pakistani cords on them? They could, but so far I've never seen that happen. I've always seen it go the other way, as on this set: a Pakistani set which has been upgraded with and L&M bag and a Scottish-made chanter.

Even when you buy Pakistani-made cords & tassels they're nice ones that look like the traditional UK-made ones. The only place I've seen the distinctive ugly Pakistani-made cords & tassels, with the distinctive cloth-covered rubber O-rings, is when they come on a Pakistani-made set.

About the surface of the wood, it looks painted to me.

I will say that Hakim Din is the best Pakistani pipe maker I've seen. A guy in the pipe band used to play a Hakim Din silver-mounted set that didn't sound too bad. The odd thing was that the wood was a mix of African Blackwood and Ebony, in fact one section was half one, half the other! Glued together I guess.

[Ninehostages]

... delivered by Air Freight ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDfn8I4Ooi8

[OC Richard]

About legit UK and North American made pipes on Ebay, this fine set of David Naill pipes just came up with a very low Buy It Now, half what this set would cost new.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DN2-Bagpipe...p2056016.l4276

Until more recent makers like Dave Atherton came along, the pipes you saw at Gold Medal contests were generally either 1880-1930 classic sets, or new Naills.

[OC Richard]

... delivered by Air Freight ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDfn8I4Ooi8

Ha!

Notice that the sound was recorded in a recording studio and later added to the footage. (The pipes are close to the mic and there's no wind noise. Plus, they added a cat!)

There are (or were) a number of videos on YouTube showing people bungy jumping while playing the pipes...well, there's not much playing going on! They usually loose control of the instrument immediately. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaLCw06chTs

BTW it's a way to get your palate pierced with a foot-long spike! Which could be life-threatening. McCallum makes a flexible rubber blowpipe for the Middle Eastern mounted Pipe Bands for that very reason.