Tell newbie about kilt pins

[Jock Scot]

Ah, yes, the Landrover door..!

But that's nothing compared to baler-twine that always seems hell-bent on a do-or-die, no-holds-barred attack launched with the sole intention of recreating the Gordian knot..!

We call it a general, random, rural initiative test to see if the knot/knots can be undone in a day without using a knife and without having a breakdown of some sort!.

[DCampbell16B]

I have three kilt pins. The first was a tatty thing as I thought I had to have something when I was a teenager. The third showed up unasked as one of those clan badge on a claymore styles. I doubt I’ll ever wear it.

The second means something. I was staying with an older Gaelic speaking couple in Lewis for a while on my only trip to Scotland (and the little Gaelic I have has a decidedly Lewis sound to it). Walking on Traigh Shandaidh I picked up a fist sized piece of milky quartz. Later I was walking down the street in Inverness and saw some white metal kilt pins in the window. One was a claymore style with a ring of the shop’s initials in a circle rather than a targe. When I got home I took the quartz to my grandfather. He was a very talented man who built his own telescope (including grinding the mirrors), his own ham radios, his own TV. He traveled up and down the East Coast taking pictures of birds and giving talks about them. He also taught himself to cut, polish and even facet stones. He cut the quartz into a circle for me, polished it and found a way to fasten it to the pin over the store initials.

After almost 40 years I wear it every time I wear my kilt. I have a piece of Lewis and my grandfather with me.

[OC Richard]

Yes as Jock says the car door can grab a kilt pin! And many other things, especially for pipers and drummers.

As I've mentioned before, I think any Pipe Band who issues out kilt pins is asking for trouble.

Over my 45 years in Pipe Band I have, on several occasions, looked through entire "band sets" of kilts, sets of 40 or so kilts which have been worn for a quarter-century or more by successive generations of band members.

The kilts of bands who wore kilt pins and the kilts of of bands who didn't are like night and day.

Non-kilt pin wearing bands might have the usual split open pleats and stains and the random pull here or there, but the aprons will be in fairly good shape.

Kilt pin wearing bands will have visible wear on nearly all the aprons in the affected area. A good percentage will have holes. Several will have rent fabric, sometimes big enough to put your hand through.

Why bands in particular? Snare drums are heavy and bulky and have an astonishing number of things poking out which can catch on the kilt pin on the drum's way down every time the drummer un-hooks the drum.

At gigs pipers often have to march through crowded rooms full of people sitting on chairs around tables. The pipers' hands are busy on the chanter so chairs must be shoved out of the way with the knees- and the tops of the chair-backs are often the exact height of the kilt pins, giving predictable results.

[Jock Scot]

Yes as Jock says the car door can grab a kilt pin! And many other things, especially for pipers and drummers.
............

Just to be clear, I did not say that car doors “grab kilt pins”. I thought I had made it clear that I had never had a kilt pin catching on something(anything)and producing a rip in my kilts and I have never heard of anyone else doing so either. On the other hand, I thought I had made it perfectly clear that Land Rover door latches were the cause of rips and tears and to be clear, not only with kilts.

Two of my kilts for certain sure succumbed to this hazard and in each case the kilt pin had absolutely nothing to do with the incident.Likewise others , not just with their kilts, have been “ambushed” by the dreaded door latch hazard.

I wonder why bandsmen have such trouble with their kilts and kilt pins? I imagine, perhaps wrongly, that the general environment that they wear the kilt is not anything like as “hazardous” to kilts as the countryside.

[OC Richard]

I wonder why bandsmen have such trouble with their kilts and kilt pins?

Reasons that come to mind include

1) the band members don't own the kilts, they're issued by the band, and many people are careless with other people's property.

2) some band members, including many teenagers, are careless and accident-prone in general.

3) most band members are new to Highland Dress and don't know how to take care of their kit.

The three things above result in things such as some band members, in between performances, throwing their entire uniform, wadded up in a ball, into a corner of their room or the back of a closet.

4) half of the band are drummers and drummers often "hook up" and "un-hook" the drums. Every time a drummer un-hooks a quite heavy cumbersome object with numerous pointy bits rapidly descends down the front of the person. Anything in the way- like a kilt pin- will get tugged earthward. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a rapidly descending 20-pound object?

5) the other half of the band are pipers and we often have to march, while playing, through crowded banquets etc. Our hands are busy playing the pipes and chairs and tables have to be shoved out of the way with our thighs, upon one of which is attached a kilt pin. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a seated adult?

[Jock Scot]

Reasons that come to mind include

1) the band members don't own the kilts, they're issued by the band, and many people are careless with other people's property.

2) some band members, including many teenagers, are careless and accident-prone in general.

3) most band members are new to Highland Dress and don't know how to take care of their kit.

The three things above result in things such as some band members, in between performances, throwing their entire uniform, wadded up in a ball, into a corner of their room or the back of a closet.

4) half of the band are drummers and drummers often "hook up" and "un-hook" the drums. Every time a drummer un-hooks a quite heavy cumbersome object with numerous pointy bits rapidly descends down the front of the person. Anything in the way- like a kilt pin- will get tugged earthward. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a rapidly descending 20-pound object?

5) the other half of the band are pipers and we often have to march, while playing, through crowded banquets etc. Our hands are busy playing the pipes and chairs and tables have to be shoved out of the way with our thighs, upon one of which is attached a kilt pin. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a seated adult?

I am not from the pipe band scene, but I am shocked and stunned by your comments! I quite understand how drums may catch on a kilt pin, but I am amazed at the carefree attitudes , that you describe so vividly, of band members. I cannot say if those attitudes are present with band members on this side of the Atlantic, I hope not! I rather thought more respect for the assorted equipment and attire that goes to make up a band was present.

I am going to show my admitted ignorance here, but it seems to me and from what you say above, that the band members as a whole-----with exceptions I am sure --------- fail to understand what the whole package of the meaning of belonging to a pipe band. What do they join for then? Just for the music? Just to play the instruments? To go on jaunts to other parts of the country? Is this rather irresponsible attitude universal? If their band and its attire is so unimportant and the fact that "someone" other than themselves appears to pay for most of it? And they appear to care so little about the "uniform"? Then why do they belong to a pipe band?

Do the band members pay for any of their attire?

[EagleJCS]

I am going to show my admitted ignorance here, but it seems to me and from what you say above, that the band members as a whole-----with exceptions I am sure --------- fail to understand what the whole package of the meaning of belonging to a pipe band. What do they join for then? Just for the music? Just to play the instruments? To go on jaunts to other parts of the country? Is this rather irresponsible attitude universal? If their band and its attire is so unimportant and the fact that "someone" other than themselves appears to pay for most of it? And they appear to care so little about the "uniform"? Then why do they belong to a pipe band?

Do the band members pay for any of their attire?

As a pipe band member (currently on hiatus), I'll try to answer some of your questions, from my perspective.

There are a lot of pipers and drummers that love the music, but think the 'whole kilt-thing' is a real pain in the posterior and would much rather have the focus be on the music. 'After all, outside of orchestras, no one else has to wear funny-looking outfits to play their music.' Many of those same folk also don't understand why pipe bands form a circle in competition in the outdoors (mainly so everyone can see the pipe major conducting the band with his foot) and think an orchestral arrangement (an arc on a stage) would be more appealing.

Some band members do join just to hang out and participate in excursions to other places. They play an instrument (usually drums, but sometimes people like this will take up the pipes), but don't really have any desire to progress in their mastery of the instrument.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be a pervasive attitude along the lines of 'I didn't pay for it, so I don't have to maintain it' here in the US, at least from what I've seen. Even when the band has a clause in their bylaws (if there are any) that any band-issued equipment must be returned in good condition upon leaving the band or the exiting member must pay for repair/replacement, some people just don't bother taking care of their equipment. That kind of attitude is beyond my understanding. Growing up, I was taught 'If you take care of your tools, they will take care of you' and 'Clothes aren't cheap - don't tear them or mess them up'. In many cases, bands decide it's not worth pursuing a small-claims (usually under US$1500) lawsuit because of the hassle of finding/retaining a lawyer, filing the suit, then having someone from the band available to actually go to court if necessary.

We have the same issue in the Scouting program - the young men (and now ladies) have to be taught how to care for their equipment and shown what happens if they don't. Sometimes, spending the night in a tent that wasn't cared for properly (rigging a replacement for a broken or missing pole, etc.) or having to spend extra time cleaning up a tool before they can actually use it teaches them better than a verbal discussion.

In my pipe band, members pay for their shoes, kilt hose, kilt pin (if desired), waist belt/buckle, shirts (long and short sleeve), Argyle jacket, Inverness cape (waterproof, not wool), and Glengarry. Many times, the band will order some of these items (mainly the kilt hose) in bulk and offer them to the band at cost, or slightly above, to reduce costs and make sure everyone gets the same look/color. Everything else (the kilt, cap badge, waistcoat, flashes and tie), the pipe chanter, reed & reed cap for the pipes and drums/carriers for the drummers, are provided by the band.

Hope that provides some insight.

[OC Richard]

I cannot say if those attitudes are present with band members on this side of the Atlantic, I hope not!

I've heard similar stories about band members abusing their kit from both sides of the Atlantic, sorry to say.

It is interesting how different things are here and in Scotland concerning how many hours one spends in one's band uniform.

Here, band members drive themselves to the Highland Games. Since many don't like wearing their kit while driving they tend to arrive in the car park in their ordinary clothes, and change in the car park (strange I know!) or at the Band Tent inside the Games.

Many band members change into their uniform right before performing and change back into ordinary clothes right after. Thus they might be in uniform for only an hour or two.

In Scotland bands hire a coach and make the trip to and from the Games in full uniform the entire day.

[Troglodyte]

We call it a general, random, rural initiative test to see if the knot/knots can be undone in a day without using a knife and without having a breakdown of some sort!.

And with a running commentary in words of one syllable and four letters only..!

[Jock Scot]

And with a running commentary in words of one syllable and four letters only..!

Oh yes! Exactly so!