Pleat sizing

[Canuck]

Barb,
OK, I'm wondering ( in your mind) if there comes a point when a pleat can be too deep. I bring this point up, because in my mind there could be too much bulk at the waist and hip with the pleats overlapping. I know we cut away that bulk on a traditional hand sewn kilt but the machine made "walking" kilts just sew the pleats down. This cutaway is hidden by a curtain on traditional kilts.

So is there a formula for the ideal depth of pleat? I know you sort-of hinted at that in the above posts. i.e face of pleat *(Y)= the depth of a pleat. Can it be made to a simple formula?

Idealy we want the pleat to lie flat at it's resting position, We want a good swish ( which you mentioned in the fell) Also we don't want too much bulk.
Many thanks for the tips some of which I have already been using
cheers
Robert

[Barb T]

Hi Robert

Well, it's a somewhat complicated issue. Here are the factors that occur to me:

-if you are using tartan, you cannot simply pick a pleat depth. The pleat depth is governed by the tartan repeat regardless of whether you're pleating to the sett or to the stripe. So, if the tartan repeat (the sett) is 12", pleat depth will be in the neighborhood of 6". If the sett is 6", the pleat depth will be in the neighborhood of 3" (see a previous posting if you want to calculate the exact depth).

-the deeper the pleats for whatever reason (either the sett in a tartan or by choice in a self-color kilt) the more fabric it will take to have a given number of pleats. If you have a fixed amount of fabric, deeper pleats mean fewer pleats with a larger "reveal". I inadvertently bought a chunk of tartan once that had a 16" sett (couldn't tell that from the swatch, unfortunately). The pleats would have been 8" deep, and I could only get 14 pleats out of the yardage I had. I didn't make the kilt, and the tartan is still sitting on my shelf. So, if you translate this to a self-color kilt, yes, you can make the pleats too deep. If they're too deep, then you don't have enough fabric to make enough pleats across the back to make it look good.

-for a traditional kilt, it really doesn't matter how deep the pleats are, because, as you say, you cut out all the extra fabric above the steeking and cover it with canvas and lining. So, there's no bulk at the waistline. For a "walking kilt", as you say, you don't cut out the pleats. But, then again, I can't imagine making a walking kilt out of 8 yards of material, which is what it would take if you wanted really deep pleats unless you had a very small number of pleats.

-and last, some of the swing does come from the amount of fabric that you use. A skimpy amount of fabric just won't swing as well as a full 7 or 8 yards will.

All right, so what does all that mean? You'll notice that I haven't really committed myself. The best swing comes with wool fabric and lots of it (7-8 yards) stitched with the right length fell. I think you'll never get the same swing in a "walking kilt" because there's just not enough fabric. So, if I were doing a walking kilt, I'd try to make it as "kiltlike" as possible (i.e., put in more narrow pleats rather than fewer wide pleats) and not worry about the depth very much. That way, you won't have bulk at the waist, and it will look like a kilt. Won't swing as well as one with more fabric, but that's what I'd aim for.

I've only made a couple of walking kilts, so maybe I'm off in left field somewhere! What do you think??

Barb

[Jimmy Carbomb]

The best swing comes with wool fabric and lots of it (7-8 yards) stitched with the right length fell.

Ding, ding!!!

I think you'll never get the same swing in a "walking kilt" because there's just not enough fabric. So, if I were doing a walking kilt, I'd try to make it as "kiltlike" as possible...

I just did one yesterday, and the reveal at the waist was 1" with a pleat depth at the waist of 3". The length is 21" and the fell is 6.5". The material is a heavy cotton-twill. Reveals that are any wider just don't seem to carry a taper (from my experience) with "rigid" fabrics. Sewn-down pleats also seem to creat a "pucker" through washings and ironings. Therefore, there are no sewn-down pleats.

I also admit (forgive me teachers, for I have sinned) that I used pins... many pins!

The waist to hip ratio was larger than anything I've ever had to do before, so I got "chicken". Fortunately, the thing came out perfect... with plenty of sway and uniformity.

I've only done a few dozen solids in the last few months, but the 3-to-1 (depth to reveal) has worked VERY well on all of them. You don't need to be a "rocket surgeon" to figure-out the work either!

[Barb T]

Jimmy

Great to know!!

Barb

[Canuck]

Hi Robert

(snipped) So, if you translate this to a self-color kilt, yes, you can make the pleats too deep. If they're too deep, then you don't have enough fabric to make enough pleats across the back to make it look good.

-(Snip) For a "walking kilt", as you say, you don't cut out the pleats. But, then again, I can't imagine making a walking kilt out of 8 yards of material, which is what it would take if you wanted really deep pleats unless you had a very small number of pleats.

-and last, some of the swing does come from the amount of fabric that you use. A skimpy amount of fabric just won't swing as well as a full 7 or 8 yards will.

(snip). So, if I were doing a walking kilt, I'd try to make it as "kiltlike" as possible (i.e., put in more narrow pleats rather than fewer wide pleats) and not worry about the depth very much. That way, you won't have bulk at the waist, and it will look like a kilt. Won't swing as well as one with more fabric, but that's what I'd aim for.

I've only made a couple of walking kilts, so maybe I'm off in left field somewhere! What do you think??

Barb

What do I think?...you are not out in left field. I try and make the walking kilt as close to a tarditional as possible. Since I make contemporary kilts.... I try and put as much fabric in the kilt without making it too bulky. I like the look of a narrower pleat so mine are btween an 1" and 1.5" The other reason is that the taper at the waist isn't as noticable. My pleat depths are reasonably generous, I have experimented with a really deep pleat but I find I wasn't overall happy with the look. Wool of course gives the best swish factor, I was also surprised how well the leather swishes too.
But for my money I would pass on a wool walking kilt. I feel the pleat faces are too big, seeing the machine stitching also detracts from the look of the kilt.
I agree with your post I just snipped some of it out so this wouldn't be too long.
Many thanks
Robert

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Robert me lad, you have a whole different "animal" with those leather kilts!

I just finished one over the weekend that took me three times the time to make, over the wool ones. You just have to be SO careful since there's absolutely NO room for error! Man, do I have a WHOLE new load of respect for your work?!!!

I went with the 1" reveal and 3" depth on it too, since I had just finished another one in cotton-twill. The "swish factor" on the leather is surprisingly fantastic... even better than the cotton-twill. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!

[Canuck]

Robert me lad, you have a whole different "animal" with those leather kilts!

I just finished one over the weekend that took me three times the time to make, over the wool ones. You just have to be SO careful since there's absolutely NO room for error! Man, do I have a WHOLE new load of respect for your work?!!!

I went with the 1" reveal and 3" depth on it too, since I had just finished another one in cotton-twill. The "swish factor" on the leather is surprisingly fantastic... even better than the cotton-twill. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!

We're always learning and finding new ways to improve. Most of the time is spent deciding how you're going to cut the hide, whats the best piece for the over apron etc. You also have to make sure you know the taper and the fell length because if you make a mistake and you take it out you are left with all the stitch holes. Which also means no pins on the assembly. I'm constantly measuring as I sew. I must say that having a walking foot industrial sure makes it easier, especialy when putting on the waistband and going through all those pleats. Next to wool the leather makes a wonderful kilt. Easy to clean and the ladies just want to reach out and feel.....the leather that is
Well enjoy your kilt Jimmy
Cheers
Robert