Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[OC Richard]

Most Ghillies that are available in the US are rather chunky and inelegant...with their connection to pipe bands and hire, chunky soles and cheap construction are quite common.

So true!!

The modern mass-produced Ghillies that are sold by the thousands to Pipe Band people the world over generally have the cemented-on thick rubber soles.

The idea is that these "marching sole" Ghillies are more comfortable. Thousands of Pipe Band people would disagree.

BTW there's a regular occurrence at Highland Games which have big Pipe Band contests: invariably a band member will have the sole of one of his Ghillies just fall off. (That's what Duct Tape is for, right??)

Things were different in the mid-1970s when I joined my first band and bought my first pair of Ghillies. Mind you, only one person in the band owned Ghillies at the time I joined, a "mature gent", a piper who had served in the Cameron Highlanders in the Western Desert in WWII, who did loads of solo gigs and was a sharp dresser.

But the Pipe Major decided we should all get Ghillies, and I bought a pair at the next Highland Games.

The firm was Keltic. They had two styles of Ghillies to choose from: a heavy brogue with thick leather sole, and a lightweight shoe of supple leather. I picked the latter, and wore this pair for nearly 30 years. They were the most comfortable shoes of any sort I've ever worn (including trainers). I think I had them re-soled 4 times.

This was before Ghillies with cemented rubber soles had made their awkward debut.

Ghillie brogues are also inexorably linked to the kilt...

That's the very thing I like about Ghillies, they're a specific unique Highland Dress shoe.

...they cannot be worn with other clothes without appearing eccentric.

There were long stretches when Ghillies were the only black dress shoes I owned, and I often wore them with trousers. People rarely noticed. (Trousers are expected when performing on the Uilleann Pipes.)

I think the association with bands and hire has damaged their reputation in general but that doesn’t mean they cannot or should not have a place in the discussion of traditional civilian highland dress.

That's the thing, when I started kiltwearing Pipe Bands were just beginning to wear them. That 1970s Pipe Band, my first band, only started to get Ghillies in the late 1970s and would be the only band at Games wearing them, the other bands wearing either spats with military-style Full Dress, or buckled shoes with tartan hose and Evening Dress.

Also the nascent Kilt Hire Industry was yet to have it deleterious impact on traditional Highland Dress.

We all are a product of our age, and for my first decade of kiltwearing Ghillies had yet to acquire the dual stink of Kilt Hire and Pipe Bands. I'm simply unable to view Ghillies through the lens of someone who started kiltwearing when Ghillies were on the feet of every mannequin in every Kilt Hire shop window and being worn by every Pipe Band on the planet.

[FossilHunter]

So true!!

The modern mass-produced Ghillies that are sold by the thousands to Pipe Band people the world over generally have the cemented-on thick rubber soles.

The idea is that these "marching sole" Ghillies are more comfortable. Thousands of Pipe Band people would disagree.

BTW there's a regular occurrence at Highland Games which have big Pipe Band contests: invariably a band member will have the sole of one of his Ghillies just fall off. (That's what Duct Tape is for, right??)

Things were different in the mid-1970s when I joined my first band and bought my first pair of Ghillies. Mind you, only one person in the band owned Ghillies at the time I joined, a "mature gent", a piper who had served in the Cameron Highlanders in the Western Desert in WWII, who did loads of solo gigs and was a sharp dresser.

But the Pipe Major decided we should all get Ghillies, and I bought a pair at the next Highland Games.

The firm was Keltic. They had two styles of Ghillies to choose from: a heavy brogue with thick leather sole, and a lightweight shoe of supple leather. I picked the latter, and wore this pair for nearly 30 years. They were the most comfortable shoes of any sort I've ever worn (including trainers). I think I had them re-soled 4 times.

This was before Ghillies with cemented rubber soles had made their awkward debut.



That's the very thing I like about Ghillies, they're a specific unique Highland Dress shoe.



There were long stretches when Ghillies were the only black dress shoes I owned, and I often wore them with trousers. People rarely noticed. (Trousers are expected when performing on the Uilleann Pipes.)



That's the thing, when I started kiltwearing Pipe Bands were just beginning to wear them. That 1970s Pipe Band, my first band, only started to get Ghillies in the late 1970s and would be the only band at Games wearing them, the other bands wearing either spats with military-style Full Dress, or buckled shoes with tartan hose and Evening Dress.

Also the nascent Kilt Hire Industry was yet to have it deleterious impact on traditional Highland Dress.

We all are a product of our age, and for my first decade of kiltwearing Ghillies had yet to acquire the dual stink of Kilt Hire and Pipe Bands. I'm simply unable to view Ghillies through the lens of someone who started kiltwearing when Ghillies were on the feet of every mannequin in every Kilt Hire shop window and being worn by every Pipe Band on the planet.

What did your band and others wear before they had ghillies?

[OC Richard]

What did your band and others wear before they had ghillies?

Civilian pipe bands, from the time they first appeared in the 19th century up to around 1980, either wore military-style Full Dress with spats, or civilian Evening Dress with full tartan hose and buckled shoes.

I have a photo of a Highland Games massed bands in 1972 and there's not a single pair of ghillies, nor a single Glengarry to be seen.



Our band had worn Full Dress for gigs and competition up until around 1978 when for competition at Games we switched to this outfit. Initially only two guys had Ghillies, but we were all told to get them.

As you see we just wore ordinary black shoes (the shoes we wore under our spats in Full Dress).

[OC Richard]

Here's Kilt Hire Ghillies at their worst, wtih Viking-style laces.

(On the left is a Bulgarian folk costume with their traditional white wool wrapping that goes from ankle to knee, held in place with long leather straps. I'm guessing it was folk costumes like this that inspired the Hollywood Viking leg wraps.)

[Tobus]

We all are a product of our age, and for my first decade of kiltwearing Ghillies had yet to acquire the dual stink of Kilt Hire and Pipe Bands.

I must admit, I chortled at that "dual stink" quip. And then I reflected upon it a bit. Perhaps part of my aversion to the aesthetics of ghillie brogues comes not only from the hire industry, but from pipe bands as well. I want to be careful here not to insult anyone in a pipe band (or who dresses in that style for solo piping), but in my opinion it is not an ideal look for civilian kilt-wearers who are not pipers. It's such a generic presentation of Highland wear - indeed, this may be the whole point for a band uniform - but I don't want to look like I'm wearing a uniform. In thinking about my own choices, I tend to avoid the Glengarry because it's so iconic of pipe bands. Wearing a waistcoat without a jacket (especially with a plain-coloured shirt like white or blue) also looks like a pipe band member. Even wearing a black Argyll and waistcoat during the day, to me, looks like a pipe band uniform. And that "logic" (as it were) follows down to the ghillie brogues, especially the chunky rubber soled versions.

I'm perfectly aware that pipe bands don't all wear the same thing. But when I think of the typical pipe band uniform, it looks like this (photo below of one of the local pipe bands I see performing at Highland Games in my area). And I naturally gravitate away from the things that give it that look, ghillie brogues included.

[MacKenzie]

Fish or fowl?

https://sportkilt.com/product/ghillie-boots/

[ShaunMaxwell]

Fish or fowl?

https://sportkilt.com/product/ghillie-boots/

I’m all for ankle boots with a kilt, but maybe not those… Something more like these:



Cheers,

SM

[MacKenzie]

I’m all for ankle boots with a kilt, but maybe not those… Something more like these:

What are those?

[ShaunMaxwell]

What are those?

Something a little sleeker, dressier and sturdier is what I meant. Those are some boots from Johnston & Murphy from a few years back. The most similar pair they offer now are these:

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/xc-fl...20Full%20Grain

Lots of similar options from any number of makers are available.

I like an ankle boot with a kilt in cooler weather on uneven ground, such as you might experience at Highland games, where that photo was taken. But to each his own.

Cheers,

SM

[Tobus]

Something a little sleeker, dressier and sturdier is what I meant. Those are some boots from Johnston & Murphy from a few years back. The most similar pair they offer now are these:

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/xc-fl...20Full%20Grain

Lots of similar options from any number of makers are available.

I like an ankle boot with a kilt in cooler weather on uneven ground, such as you might experience at Highland games, where that photo was taken. But to each his own.

Cheers,

SM

I am an enthusiastic proponent of ankle boots with the kilt for daywear, especially for outdoor events like Highland Games and festivals. They certainly have an established provenance during Victorian times, to which the MacLeay portraits (amongst other period paintings and photographs) can certainly attest. I would even be so bold as to assert that ankle boots quite handily eclipsed ghillie brogues during the most important evolutionary period of Highland attire, and deserve a place high on the list of traditional footwear.

The modern trend with boots, of course, is to be very chunky and tall. But a narrow, sleek ankle boot hits all the ideal proportions in my view.

I admit to being envious of Shaun's boots that he posted above when I saw him wearing them at the Salado Highland Games a few years ago. I had previously purchased some ankle-height brogued "country boots" from Samuel Windsor but felt they were chunkier than I wanted. Johnston & Murphy, sadly, do not offer footwear in my size. Somehow I stumbled upon Beckett Simonon, and have been very happy with their boots as well as their business model. They are hand-made to order (usually with a couple months lead time). I recently took delivery of my third pair of their "Medina" boots, which I wear to my office job with trousers as well as with the kilt.

Apologies for not having a photo of them whilst kilted, but these are my Beckett Simonon boots. I prefer a cap-toe with simple broguing at the toe & heel seams. But they do offer a full brogue boot (Nolan line) as well, if one is interested.