Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[12stones]

I have no dog in the ghillie brogues fight, but they're not a form of footwear that I'll wear. Regular brogues, never oxfords, though! However, can we talk about how awful buckle brogues are?! lol

Anyway, this has been a fascinating discussion and a learning lesson. Thanks everyone that's provided some historical perspective and for all the pics!

[kiltedsawyer]

"All of these things are traditions to native kilted Scots, and the ghillie-brogues do appropriate duty when required - so those who would otherwise get themselves shod a-la-ghillie but dare not through fear of others' mistaken prejudices, ought to be encouraged."

Ghillies are not for me. That is a personal choice. I have no "mistaken prejudices" about ghillies, or great kilts, or laird's plaids, or pirate shirts. I enjoy seeing different levels of formality and style options. How boring it would be if Argyll jackets were the only jackets made. My only complaint, (and this may show my age,) is slovenly dress. Let this not be taken as snobbish or elitist, I am not talking about those whose economic means limit their options, as anyone spending money on a kilt, (even one that is considered by many as less expensive,) has the disposable income to dress respectfully.

In short, there should be no fears of others' mistaken prejudices if one does their best to be respectful in their appearance. I do think showing up at a Highland Games with a sword is a little weird, but to each his own.
Cheers,

David

[kilted2000]

My only complaint, (and this may show my age,) is slovenly dress. Let this not be taken as snobbish or elitist, I am not talking about those whose economic means limit their options, as anyone spending money on a kilt, (even one that is considered by many as less expensive,) has the disposable income to dress respectfully.

In short, there should be no fears of others' mistaken prejudices if one does their best to be respectful in their appearance. I do think showing up at a Highland Games with a sword is a little weird, but to each his own.

Just out of curiosity what do you consider slovenly and respectful?

[SF Jeff]

I'm late to this thread so I'll just quickly say that I've never worn ghillies and probably never will. Outside of a band environment, I see no reason to. They remind me of dance shoes so I'm wondering if that's where they got their start? My piping skills are such that I will probably never perform with a band, so unlikely I will ever own a pair.

I do think showing up at a Highland Games with a sword is a little weird, but to each his own.

I saw a guy in full Outlander/Highlander regalia at some games I attended last week, including full sword on his hip. Looked more like a LARPer or reenactor. His SO was dressed like a faerie or something like that. Looked nice but a little out of place at highland games IMO.

[Ivor]

I have no dog in the ghillie brogues fight, but they're not a form of footwear that I'll wear. Regular brogues, never oxfords, though! However, can we talk about how awful buckle brogues are?! lol!

I wonder how typical this attitude towards different styles of footwear is among contributors here. I have noticed previous controversy concerning shoe types, particularly those described as “Mary Janes” which seems to hint at a certain gender dysphoria in the wearer’s choice. Could this perhaps be at the root of attitudes towards ghillie brogues also and the consequent preference for a fully conventional type of footwear such as Oxfords or Brogues?

[Tomo]

I have a pair of Ghillie brogues - although seldom worn these days (in fact I'm not sure where they are - prob back home in the UK). My preferences is for regular brogues - but I have nothing against the ghillie brogues, I just find them a bit OTT for most occasionswhen I wear a kilt.

To be fair they where included in the package when I bought my first kilt - back in 2000. So not entirely my choice. It was cheaper than buying everything separately and included ecru hose (soon replaced with green, black and charcoal ones), a PC (which I haven't worn for some years now) and a decent WS Scott sealskin sporran (which still gets an outing to more formal occasions). At the time. I attended quite a few back tie events per year - so as a package it has its uses. These days, I tend to wear my kilt mainly to less formal events.

In terms of their history - I wouldn't rule out some historic influence - many folk shoes and traditional national dress look similar - here in Estonia (a pretty boggy country by any stretch) the traditional shoes look very similar to Ghillie brogues - albeit a softer construction and these days use mainly for folk dancing.

[figheadair]

which seems to hint at a certain gender dysphoria in the wearer’s choice[/B].

I'm not sure I follow as the Buckle Brogue style was around long before the Ghillie Brogue came in in the 1850s. The latter almost certainly being from the romanticised reimagining of the Allen Brothers.

[OC Richard]

I'm not sure I follow as the Buckle Brogue style was around long before the Ghillie Brogue came in in the 1850s. The latter almost certainly being from the romanticised reimagining of the Allen Brothers.

That's an interesting topic, buckle brogues.

The 18th century buckle shoes, which came high over the instep and had a complex functioning buckle system, by the 1840s had become quite low-cut, the buckle now almost at the toes, and obviously non-functional.

In other words they had become slip-on loafers with decorative buckles.

What I don't know is when they started putting a strap over the instep, which had a small functional buckle.

[Alexander Labhran]

There has to be a lineage connection with the Pampooties of the Aran Islanders of Inis Mór, Inis Meáin, and Inis Oírr in Co Galway? They were worn into living memory.
cropped_Ireland-inis-mor-pampooties.jpg

Pampooties were orginally fastened using a leather tong/lace and this simple shoe design appears to have been popular for millennia. A pair was found preserved in a bog in Ireland.

early-medieval-shoe.jpg

[OC Richard]

There has to be a lineage connection with the Pampooties of the Aran Islanders of Inis Mór, Inis Meáin, and Inis Oírr in Co Galway?

For sure there's almost certainly a connexion between the Aran pamputai and the deerskin moccasin-like foot-coverings which John Elder vividly describes in his 1542 letter to the King.

However AFAIK there is zero evidence for a continuance of use during which the 1542 foot-covering evolved, through stages of development documented in iconography, into the heavy-soled hobnailed brogue which suddenly appears in Victorian times.

And as I've mentioned shoes which have echoes of Ghillie-moccasins are still being worn in Eastern Europe, the Carpathian Krpec and the Balkan Opanak being only two of many. (I wonder if the Allens had seen any of these.)