Quality Sporrans for less money

[User]

Well, it isn't cheap. Seal in the US.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/397893159277

That one is in bad shape. The fur is balding, and OC Richard pointed out that it appears to be a children's sporran.

[Janner52]

Looks like the fellow in front has a different tartan.

Fellow in front has a maroon sash & the 2nd fellow has a red sash. Any idea about the "meaning" there?

The red sash worn by the Sgt is a standard issue supplied to all infantry sergeants, colour sgts and sgt majors.

The maroon coloured sash is made from silk and issued to Regimental Sgt Majors and others in certain appointments such as Pipe and Drum Majors.

[OC Richard]

Looks like the fellow in front has a different tartan.

Privates, Corporals, and Sergeants wear the Other Ranks tartan (the extra-heavy 18 ounce to 22 ounce stuff) while the Pipe Major and Drum Major wear tartan more like civilian 16 ounce cloth.

The ORs' tartan has a slightly fuzzy travel-rug-like feel and the bright lines are less distinct. Also the ORs' cloth has a larger sett-size.

The difference can clearly be seen here with the Pipes & Drums of 4SCOTS in the civilian kit worn when competing at Highland Games. Their kilts, flashes, and Glengarries are the only military items.) Pipe Major is at far left.



Here you can see the PM and DM of 4SCOTS in their brighter-coloured civilianlike tartan.

(Twelve pipers, a nice turnout in these days of cutbacks.)



This photo well shows the civilian-like smaller-sett tartan of the Pipe Major (right) versus the large-sett Other Ranks tartan (left) 3SCOTS The Black Watch. (Also note the Sphinx cap-badge worn only by the Pipe Major and Drum Major.)

[jsrnephdoc]

Here you can see the PM and DM of 4SCOTS in their brighter-coloured civilianlike tartan.

(Twelve pipers, a nice turnout in these days of cutbacks.)

This photo REALLY exposes my ignorance of Pipe Band hierarchy: Both the guy with the staff (who I thought was called "Drum Major") and one (or maybe two-there's a splash of what looks like right sleeve red in the drummer row) of the guys actually PLAYING drums are wearing red doublets. I THINK I've learned that the Pipe Major usually marches far right first row, but in this photo I think he's at the far LEFT of his row (from the band's perspective, not the photo viewer's) but I didn't know there was some easy way to spot the lead DRUMMER (who I thought usually marched in the MIDDLE of his row so that his mates could take rhythm clues from him from both sides.

This photo well shows the civilian-like smaller-sett tartan of the Pipe Major (right) versus the large-sett Other Ranks tartan (left) 3SCOTS The Black Watch. (Also note the Sphinx cap-badge worn only by the Pipe Major and Drum Major.)

My GOODNESS! So many things flooded into my brain as I gazed at this photo and your comments about it:

1. I'll NEVER be treated to this band performing in full dress in Las Vegas in the summer. Were there American military style L breast honorary badges for surviving the heat, they'd add even MORE weight to the uniform. I'd be exhausted by the time I finished dressing!
2. My now 40 y.o. son spent 8th grade at a military school outside of Atlanta, GA (main purpose being to teach him some organizational skills). I flew down for Parents Weekend, which featured a military dress parade. His brass band uniform was certainly simpler than these, but the heat was stifling and the students all DID wear heat-trapping bonnets. At they stood at attention for well more than an hour, several of them fainted!
3. How DO you remember all this stuff? I used to explain something I'd forgotten to friends who still remembered it by replying "disk is full," but even THAT makes no sense now that 16 terabyte SSDs are < $50!
4. For some reason, my brain also flashed on Fiddler on the Roof and one of its signature songs, "Tradition."
5. What and where is that "sphinx cap-badge?"
6. When I flew to NYC in Spring 2025 to see my son (but more to attend the Tartan Day Parade) I was simply AMAZED that TWO Glasgow high schools could afford to send their (remarkably good) student bands across the Atlantic for the event. Although their uniforms were certainly simpler than the ones of these military units, it's likely their travel budgets were dramatically dwarfed by their uniform and instrument costs!
7. I THINK it's still true that American military veterans get to keep their uniforms when they retire or separate from service. I'll bet that's NOT the case for pipers or drummers in the Black Watch.

[MacKenzie]

Appreciate the replies/clarifications.

[Janner52]

[*]I THINK it's still true that American military veterans get to keep their uniforms when they retire or separate from service. I'll bet that's NOT the case for pipers or drummers in the Black Watch.[/LIST]

On the British army all uniforms must be returned to the quartermaster on discharge. A beret, or appropriate regimental headdress is worn with civilian clothes for military occasions.

[OC Richard]

The guy with the staff (who I thought was called "Drum Major") and one (or maybe two-there's a splash of what looks like right sleeve red in the drummer row) of the guys actually PLAYING drums are wearing red doublets.

Yes in traditional Full Dress (which the British army abolished in 1914, though it continued to be worn by Bandsmen) Highland soldiers in general wore Scarlet doublets and Feather Bonnets.

Pipers of all Highland regiments were put into green doublets and Glengarries in 1860 for Full Dress (except for Black Watch pipers who have always worn Feather Bonnets in Full Dress).

Thus the longstanding look of Highland regimental pipes & drums is pipers in green and drummers in red.

From 1914 to 1953 the dressiest jackets most Highland soldiers had were khaki (US olive drab). In 1953 Highland soldiers were given green tunics, part of the new Number One Dress. Why non-pipers were put into the traditional piper's colour who can say.

So, nowadays you'll see Highland military pipes & drums with everybody in green with Glengarries (No1 Dress) or with drummers in scarlet with Feather Bonnets (Full Dress). For Highland military pipers No1 Dress and Full Dress both have green doublets and Glengarries (except for the Black Watch who switch to Feather Bonnets).

It's a bit convoluted I fear.

BTW the thing that Drum Majors carry is called a Mace.

I THINK I've learned that the Pipe Major usually marches far right first row, but in this photo I think he's at the far LEFT of his row...

Yes the Pipe Major is usually on the right, with the Pipe Sergeant on the left... except when you counter-march, when everybody ends up reversed.

I would have to see video of this performance but it could be that they're marching in reversed because at some point they'll counter-march and end up in the normal formation.

...some easy way to spot the lead DRUMMER who I thought usually marched in the MIDDLE of his row so that his mates could take rhythm clues from him from both sides.

Yes that's the practice in civilian pipe bands, the "lead tip" or Drum Sergeant is in the middle of the line of snare drummers thus to more effectively lead everybody.

I don't know where the Drum Sergeant stands in military pipe bands.

I'll NEVER be treated to this band performing in full dress in Las Vegas in the summer.

You're correct, military bands are generally practical and wear orders of dress suited to the occasion and weather.

Like the US Army used to do (I don't know if they still do) the British army traditionally had lightweight white cotton tunics worn in warm weather for formal occasions. Or they might simply wear shirtsleeve order.

Here's the Black Watch in No3 Dress (white cotton tropical doublets)



Here's the Black Watch pipes & drums in shirtsleeve order

[jsrnephdoc]

the longstanding look of Highland regimental pipes & drums is pipers in green and drummers in red.

i missed the fact that ALL the drummers were in red doublets…

and

From 1914 to 1953 the dressiest jackets most Highland soldiers had were khaki (US olive drab). In 1953 Highland soldiers were given green tunics, part of the new Number One Dress. Why non-pipers were put into the traditional piper's colour who can say.

Nowadays you'll see Highland military pipes & drums with everybody in green with Glengarries (No1 Dress) or with drummers in scarlet with Feather Bonnets (Full Dress). For Highland military pipers No1 Dress and Full Dress both have green doublets and Glengarries (except for the Black Watch who switch to Feather Bonnets).

It's a bit convoluted I fear.

BTW the thing that Drum Majors carry is called a Mace.

I knew that (or used to). But, I don't know why he's called a DRUM major. Perhaps because through some sort of mental and visual telepathy he signals the drummers on rhythm as well as the end of a tune?

WONDERFUL photos! Are the walls of your house festooned with some of the best of these? I can almost hear the drummers cheering in "Black Bear" which I find just absolutely thrilling. (It looks as though ALL the drummers are in darker tartan kilts; curious that they wear different COLOR ( OK, "coloured") doublets in full dress, but are not differentiated above the waist for their hot weather uniforms.