Sporran and Shoe Color

[TNScotsman]

The wedding scene in "The Princess Bride" as an inspiration, perhaps?

(or not)

Mawwwidge.....

[TNScotsman]

Wow! I just want to get here before Father Bill, and others who have better experience, and let they share.
Just allow me to say, that "it stuck" as you mention, is in my not so humble opinion your best qualification for this role, and perhaps why you have been called to such a responsibility. You'll do great, I am sure

Many thanks for the kind words, sir. I will admit my wife's amazing patience gets more of the credit than my getting things right, but I'm at least smart enough to know a blessing when I see one!

[Janner52]

That's a given, but how do you find the gig line on a kilt!?! (IYKYK)

Had to look that one up.

Kilts have a centre line on the apron. It will either be a line in the sett or the centre of a square in the set depending on how the kilt was tailored.

[Troglodyte]

It is pretty clear that the North American views on Highland dress have evolved differently to those in Scotland... As had frequently been said on this forum Americans like to match. Scots don’t worry... Nobody will care. You will be fine.

Quite so.

I sometimes wonder what American visitors to Sotland must think of the natives doing their native thing in a native way.

I imagine all kinds of shock and emotion, and cries of 'But they're doing it all wrong..!'

Just at the moment, there is any number of Americans who are encountering Scots and their culture for the first time, with the Tartan Army occupying different cities across the US for the footie. The Tartan Army 'uniform' is a tradition that has been carried on for several generations, but it is probably best not used as the source for a how-to guide on Highland dress...

[OC Richard]

It is pretty clear that the North American views on Highland dress have evolved differently to those in Scotland.

That's an interesting topic...I could even imagine somebody writing a thesis on it someday.

It's complicated.

I started kilt-wearing in 1975, here in California. The situation of Highland Dress at that time was:

- The impact of Pakistani imports was still in the future.

- The only Highland Dress made on our shores were kilts from a handful of kiltmakers.

- Thus our Highland Dress was entirely dependent on imports from Scotland, meaning that we wore the same Scottish-made sporrans, jackets, bonnets, etc worn in Scotland.

- The Ghilles + white hose + black leather sporran Kilt Hire/Pipe Band look, which was invented in Scotland, was still in the future.

- At least around here, everything in the "Scottish community" (Country Dancing, Highland Dancing, Pipe Bands, Highland Games, Clan Societies, and the only Strathspey & Reel Society outwith Scotland) were run by Greatest Generation Scots who were part of the post-WWII mass migration to the USA.

-Thus what to wear and how to wear it, regards Highland Dress, were regularly modelled for us by native Scots.

Was there, then, anything "American" about Highland Dress in California at that time?

I would say that things along the lines of deeper concepts and attitudes almost certainly existed at that time but wouldn't necessarily be visible on the surface. As the years have gone on, and things like re-enacting and media like Braveheart and Outlander have had their impact, these notions have surfaced and had quite visible effects on how many Americans dress.

- There's a subtle but deeply-held association of Highland Dress and our Colonial past, the notion that Highland Dress is somehow frozen in the 18th century.

- Probably related to the above, there's a quite strong (and to me as a historian extremely strange and inexplicable) notion that Highland Dress floats in some kind of bubble disassociated with the passage of time. I believe it's out of this that we see the common USAian thing of mixing items of Highland Dress from numerous different time-periods, and men wearing 20th century Highland Dress to historically-themed events at which the women are dressed in period outfits (be it Renaissance, Dickens, or Victorian).

- The traditions and norms of Highland Dress being largely foreign, there's a USAian thing of not understanding the various modes of Highland Dress (civilian Evening dress, civilian Day dress, military Highland Dress) and mixing all these things together.

- There's a tendency to make false analogies between how Highland Dress is worn and how standard American clothing is worn.

[Jock Scot]

There is also an added complication here. Hire Company attire. If one wants to take advice from them, or look at their Internet pictures to see and hear some absolute "howlers" with their pictures and their , er um "traditional" kilt attire advice for their customers. Not in the least bit helpful!

[Ivor]

, and the only Strathspey & Reel Society outwith Scotland).

Spoken like a true Scotsman, “outwith” a preposition almost exclusively used in Scotland. While I rarely contribute I have enjoyed reading many threads going back many years and the overwhelming message is one of wishing to conform totally to an accepted set of conventions derived from trusted sources, usually of a Scottish pedigree. Many come with their choice of outfit happy to undergo critical appraisal by their peers but always tempered by the opinion of a long-serving Scottish member.
This comes as a complete surprise to someone who always regarded American people as free thinkers never inhibited about doing things their own way. And so to find them unquestioningly following tradition in this way seems contrary to an otherwise national character.
The recent influx of kilted Scots to Boston and Miami will give an impression of how many Scots choose to dress for more casual occasions and shows that those in the home of the kilt are more relaxed about its appearance than perhaps many here.

[OC Richard]

It has long been a convention that black brogues only are worn with the kilt - and it is a common sight, especially here in Scotland.

The origin of this is debatable, and is frequently given as having its roots in military traditions that get carried over into civilian life.

On the other hand there are several portraits predating the raising of The Black Watch of civilians in Highland Dress all showing black shoes, and none showing brown shoes.

The loathing hatred that is often targeted at ghillie brogues is curious...

I think it dates from the sudden ubiquitousness of the white hose + Ghillies + black "semi dress" sporran + black Argyll/Prince Charlie kilt hire/pipe band costume beginning around 1980.

Descriptions of Highland footwear found in 16th and 17th century accounts are pretty close to the appearance of modern-day ghillie brogues...

As far as I know it's one description from 1548, dredged up by the Allen Brothers, which led to their creating the modern Ghillie brogues for their personal costumes, and the "ancient" costume of Prince Edward.



As to the appearance of the 1548 footwear who can say, but they sound like unstructured moccasins rather than the built-up brogues of the Allen Brothers.

...anyone familiar with MacLeay sees that they (brown Ghillies) have been around for at least 150 years...

That's curious, isn't it? how all but one of the pairs of Ghillies in MacLeay are tan roughout leather (cf the identical shoes of Prince Edward's "ancient Highlander" costume).

Being that (IMHO) Ghillie brogues were a pseudo-ancient shoe created by Robert Jones and the Allen Brothers making them in rough tan hide fits.

[Jock Scot]

Spoken like a true Scotsman, “outwith” a preposition almost exclusively used in Scotland. While I rarely contribute I have enjoyed reading many threads going back many years and the overwhelming message is one of wishing to conform totally to an accepted set of conventions derived from trusted sources, usually of a Scottish pedigree. Many come with their choice of outfit happy to undergo critical appraisal by their peers but always tempered by the opinion of a long-serving Scottish member.
This comes as a complete surprise to someone who always regarded American people as free thinkers never inhibited about doing things their own way. And so to find them unquestioningly following tradition in this way seems contrary to an otherwise national character.
The recent influx of kilted Scots to Boston and Miami will give an impression of how many Scots choose to dress for more casual occasions and shows that those in the home of the kilt are more relaxed about its appearance than perhaps many here.

I don't come from the ranks of the Tartan Army(T.A.) and frankly I am not interested in football, or, rugby and couldn't care less about who wins. However there are times, like the last few days where I was casually kilted, clad in shirt sleeves, no tie, hose-less and shoe-less by the river bank cursing the sun, which is far from helpful when trying to catch a salmon!. Casual kilt attire in Scotland, is a perfectly normal kilted exercise although, T shirts are not my scene.

[jsrnephdoc]

Quite so.

I sometimes wonder what American visitors to Sotland must think of the natives doing their native thing in a native way.

I imagine all kinds of shock and emotion, and cries of 'But they're doing it all wrong..!'

Just at the moment, there is any number of Americans who are encountering Scots and their culture for the first time, with the Tartan Army occupying different cities across the US for the footie. The Tartan Army 'uniform' is a tradition that has been carried on for several generations, but it is probably best not used as the source for a how-to guide on Highland dress...

SEVERAL thought come to mind:

1. There was a time, early in adulthood, when I knew instantly upon looking at a "fan jersey" number borrowed from an actual Green Bay Packers uniform just WHO that person's hero was. My OWN signature accomplishment, however, was peeing in the middle urinal of a triad, with Bart Starr to one side and Ray Nitschke the other at halftime in a National Guard Armory in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, back when player salaries didn't reach millions even if counted in pennies, and the Packers players traveled around Wisconsin and Upper Michigan playing basketball against former local high school stars both to stay in shape in the off-season and to make enough money to survive during those long months. THAT is (or was) "Amurica."
2. It took me reading almost the entire thread to realize what "the footie" is.
3. As Jock has pointed out, trying to infer what "real" highland dress is like by looking at typical Scots in Scotland would be a more difficult matter than TS Eliot's "naming of cats," because the wearing of kilts seems to be seen primarily in shopwindows or at commercial events or formal celebrations (or, of course, in museums). During my first visit to Scotland, I rarely encountered ANYONE wearing a kilt just because that's what he pulled from his closet in the morning. And, the example of THAT which comes to mind was a rock band on a streetcorner in Edinburgh with a piper among the electrified guitar players.

For those of us in the USA, at least SOME of those issues may be clarified when the curated tartan history exhibit of the early 2020s hosted at a museum in Dundee makes it to the US as promised.