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  1. #11
    Doc Hudson's Avatar
    Doc Hudson is offline Membership Revoked for repeated rule violations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome
    Wouldn't that throw them all for a loop, if I showed up at the Highland Games in a nice Balmoral kilt.... hmm..... :-)
    I dare ya! :P

  2. #12
    Doc Hudson's Avatar
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    highland Daz,

    Just to make sure you know, I meant no offense by my post above. It was written 1/4 in jest, 1/4 in annoyance at the MacDonald Moron, and half in dead seriousness.

    All kiltwearers would do well to adopt the Cameron Motto as their own.

    UNITE!

    Now that would could change the perception of us who wear the kilt!

  3. #13
    macwilkin is offline
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    clan membership...

    my own clan of Cameron is very different, all septs are welcome, as are people with no family/blood connection to the Camerons who are just interested. we love it and feel honoured when people wear "our" tartan.
    Many clan societies are this way -- "my" own Clan Cumming adopts a similar policy towards potential members -- and this practice is traditional, as the real halmark of clan membership is allegiance to the clan & its chief, blood ties or not.

    A friend of mine had a similar problem with the local MacDonald rep, Ron -- he decided to join the Clan Davidson society instead! :mrgreen:

    Cheers,

    Todd

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Hudson
    All kiltwearers would do well to adopt the Cameron Motto as their own.

    UNITE!

    Now that would could change the perception of us who wear the kilt!
    Well Doc, isn't that pretty much what we're doing here?

  5. #15
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    "Only a true Scotsman..."
    "Only a true Macdonald..."
    "Only a true Murphy descended from the Seamus Murphy's in Co Antrim around the time of..."

    Yadda, yadda, yadda...Geez! This goes on forever doesn't it?


    In my experience, folks like the Clan Donald fellow have the same type of small mind that would have me in trousers because I wasn't born and bred in the highlands, and not currently knee deep in heather and thistles. He might also object to my blood not coming out in the precise Macdonald tartan.

    Folks like this get a kick out of feeling important by throwing their weight around and telling people what they can and can't do. I try to make it rule of thumb that when someone tells me what I can or can't do to return the favor, and tell them exactly what they can do, and precisely how to get there. My life's too short to put up with such nonsense.

    Next they'll be telling people that they can't go to the local Chinese buffet because they weren't born in Beijing, or that I can't do vodka shots because I'm not directly descended from the Romanovs on my mother's, brother's, second cousin's side twice removed.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome
    I make the same point about the Royal Stewart, when I get people telling me it is "reserved for the Royal Family." I say, "then tell me why I can get a bathrobe and boxer shorts in it at Target?"
    Good answer, Matt! I wore a Royal Stewart sash to a dinner this past weekend, because I was wearing an evening dress and silk sashes are only available in a small number of tartans. As a direct descendant of all the Stewart kings of Scotland through James V, I guess I could feel 'entitled' to wear it, and that's why I picked that tartan rather than one of the 59 others I could get in silk -- but I would tell any customer of mine that Royal Stewart is OK for anyone to wear. It has, in effect, become a 'generic Scottish' tartan today, even though technically I suppose it 'belongs' to the Royal Family. The Queen never seems to complain about it!

    This idea that tartans are the sacrosanct property of a particular personage or clan is made far too much of an issue by some people. Tartans are not the equivalent of armorial bearings. Most of the so-called clan tartans we know today have only been around in any recorded form since the mid-1800s, at the earliest. Many were set down either by a weaving house that was producing the tartan (notably Wilsons of Bannockburn), or by the Sobieski Stuarts, in their spurious Vestiarium Scoticum. To wit:

    John Telfer Dunbar in History of Highland Dress [1961] quotes from a manuscript entitled Clan Tartans [1871] written by Campbell of Islay, a Gaelic scholar who lived in the Highlands and had a great knowledge of Highland dress:

    "Campbell [author of Tales of the West Highlands] refers to his ‘old friend John Sobieski Stuart, Count d’Albanie who first caused me to be arrayed in Highland Costume in 1825’. In this volume he wrote, ‘I do not believe that the distinctions which are now made as to Clan Tartans ever prevailed at all, till Tartan became an important manufacture in Scotland in the reign of George the 4th.’
    (http://www.electricscotland.com/cana...er/stuarts.htm)

    I could go on and on about this subject of the historical accuracy of tartans, but I know I'd just be preaching to the choir here!

    There are some tartans that are copyrighted, as Matt pointed out, and there are some that are registered as being 'restricted' to use by an individual or those of a particular surname, family, or clan. I think those designations should be respected, but otherwise, there's nothing to say that someone is not entitled to wear a certain tartan, especially one that is in general production!

    Most people want to wear a tartan that has some connection to their personal history, if one exists. When one has hundreds of years of Scottish forebears, this can include quite a few tartans with a family association! One can choose to affiliate with a clan, and if it's a clan with a current chief, then by formally joining the clan, one is pledging loyalty to that chief and that clan and wearing the tartan has a deeper meaning. Clan Cameron are a good example of this. They have a recently-elevated chief, Donald Angus Cameron of Lochiel, XXVII Chief of Clan Cameron, and I think he deserves the loyalty of his clan members wherever they may be found. As highlander_Daz said, Lochiel and his clan are very gracious and welcoming to all who want to honour their name by wearing the Cameron tartan. But for many clans, there is no standing chief. Does this mean no one should wear the tartan associated with such a clan? Of course not!

    Wear a tartan if you like it. If it has a family or district association for you, so much the better. But don't lose sleep over the question of whether you are 'entitled' to wear such-and-such a tartan! And be content in the knowledge that people who give you a hard time about it are just demonstrating their own ignorance!

  7. #17
    macwilkin is offline
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    Cyndi's post...

    Wow, Cyndi, what a great post -- you've done grand!

    Thank you especially for this statement:

    Tartans are not the equivalent of armorial bearings.
    Well said. There may be clan/family tartans, but no such thing as a "family coat-of-arms", period! This cannot be stated enough!

    Slainte!

    Todd

  8. #18
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    Re: Cyndi's post...

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunscot
    Wow, Cyndi, what a great post -- you've done grand!

    Thank you especially for this statement:

    Tartans are not the equivalent of armorial bearings.
    Well said. There may be clan/family tartans, but no such thing as a "family coat-of-arms", period! This cannot be stated enough!

    Slainte!

    Todd
    Amen to that, Todd!

    And thanks for the kind words! I tend to get wound up on this subject...

  9. #19
    Dreadbelly is offline Membership Revoked for repeated rule violations.
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    We Douglasses must be a nicer bunch. Out in public one day, I had a couple that was from Scotland recognize my tartan. They were Douglasses, and were very suprised to see one of their American cousins wearing the kilt. Infact, they were a little to happy, because they made a big public scene about the whole thing.

    It was sort of embarassing!

  10. #20
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    "Why I hate the Highland games" sounds a little drastic!

    Apart from the Utilikilt guys, who I also got to meet at the games, was there nothing else you enjoyed?

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