Following Barb T.'s book...

[KMacT]

I know I may be rufling a few feathers by not knowing the tartan connections, but ...managed to get a double width, 100% wool 16oz tartan in black and red for under £20.

It's a smart idea. I can't imagine feathes being ruffled.

Kevin

[chasem]

that's about $35... would be nice to find a deal like that! (Maclachlan Modern, if anyone has connections! )

[Barb T]

Hi guys

The big problem with using too little fabric is that you can't do a true pleating either to the sett or to the stripe without having the pleats really big. That's not a disaster, but it won't look like a traditional kilt. If you want to use a small amount of fabric, find a tartan with a really small sett (like maybe 4" or so). Won't have the swing of a kilt with larger sett and more fabric, but for a first kilt, it's a good alternative.

Cheers!

Barb

[KMacT]

The big problem with using too little fabric is that you can't do a true pleating either to the sett or to the stripe without having the pleats really big.

Barb,

Here is my question. I've ordered five yards of 16 oz. wool. The tartan has a large sett (7.25 inches), so my calculations (based on your book) are that pleated to the stripe I'll have 15 pleats (on my 35 inch waist). Each pleat will be 1.16 inches wide and 3 inches deep. How will that hold its form and hang, do you think?

And by the way, I'm assuming that if pleated to the sett (rather than the stripe) it will still have the same number of pleats of the same size and depth. Is that right?

Kevin

[Barb T]

Hi Kevin

15 pleats isn't very many for a traditional man's kilt (most of the ones I make have anywhere between 23 and 29), and it won't swing very well with so few pleats. It will look more like a heavy-weight hillwalker kilt than a traditional one. That's not necessarily bad, but you have to be happy with that.

You'll get the most pleats if you pleat to the stripe, because each pleat is folded in exactly the same place (i.e., one repeat apart). If you're pleating to the sett, you'll get fewer pleats, because each pleat is folded one repeat plus enough more to get to the next section of the tartan (which, with pleats as big as you'll have, will be the repeat plus more than an inch). That eats into the # of pleats, and, if you have figured 15 pleats on the basis of the repeat alone, you might find that you can get only 13 or 14 pleats if you pleat to the sett.

Tartan is expensive (which is presumably why you bought only 5 yards to begin with!). On the other hand, you'll put a lot of work into the kilt, and it's not really a "trial balloon" if you've invested in 16 oz kilting tartan. If you're having second thoughts and you already have the tartan, you can order a few more yards and piece the back of the kilt. It's not a big deal, and no one will ever know you've done it, because the joins will be hidden in the pleat folds. It would be no different than doing a join in a kilt made from ripped double-width fabric, which I do all the time (your kilt would just have two seams instead of one).

All in all, it's your choice!

Cheers,

Barb

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Hi guys

The big problem with using too little fabric is that you can't do a true pleating either to the sett or to the stripe without having the pleats really big. That's not a disaster, but it won't look like a traditional kilt. If you want to use a small amount of fabric, find a tartan with a really small sett (like maybe 4" or so). Won't have the swing of a kilt with larger sett and more fabric, but for a first kilt, it's a good alternative.

Cheers!

Barb

I'm glad that you answered that one here. There was another thread about the same subject, and I attempted to explain about the wider pleats too, and how it would be a wonderfully made casual-looking kilt.

It's also gratifying to see that guys are willing to use the same techniques in the traditionals, to sew-up a "casual". It will make for a much better kilt, and will look sharper around the hips.

Take the time that it takes to sew-up the 4-yard "Barb-method" kilt, and extend it by 4-times when you work up to an 8-yarder. You have to allot for the time for the thinner and extra pleats, and also add-in the time to let your fingers heal!!! It's well worth it, and will only make your finger tips better for the next dozen that you make!

[Phil Wright]

I'm after any more hints & tips even after reading Barb's book. I am pleating 1/2" military pleats with a shallow reduction of about 1/6". Whenever I try sewing them down I get more waves than in the North Sea. Done the pulling tight & hold bit, but especially as it's military pleats, anything other than perfect looks a mess. Any help appreciated.
Phil

[M. A. C. Newsome]

About the size of the pleats, I just want to add that wide pleats don't neccesarily equalt to a "casual" looking kilt.

I don't know where the idea started, but remember that up until the middle of the ninteenth century, all kilts had only about 4 yards of cloth, and were usually pleated to stripe. This meant that sometimes you just had a few very wide pleats. We have one in the museum from c. 1800 that has exactly 6 box pleats in the back, about 2.5" wide each. I'm making one right now for a client that only has 6 box pleats in the back, because the sett of his tartan is 13.5".

Look at the picture on the main page of my kilt site. That's the MacQuarrie tartan from the Cockburn collection (c. 1815). It has an 11" sett, and when I made that one for myself I only got seven pleats out of it. No big deal.

Even with smaller setts I only get as much as a dozen (maybe fifteen at the most) box pleats. I know that ya'll here are talking about knife pleats, which is fine -- but with box pleats expecially you don't want pleats too small, because that doesn't give much depth to the pleat itself.

To be sure, fewer, wider pleats is a much different look than many narrow pleats. But I just wanted to put forth my opinion that it is unfair to say the former is a "casual" look only. If it is made well, there is no reason such a kilt could not be worn formally, with the proper accessories. As I have said before on this forum, a good kilt should be versitile -- wearable for both casual and formal occasions.

I've worn box pleated kilts with wide pleats to many a formal event and never raised an eyebrow. Got married in one, in fact!

Aye,
Matt

[beerbecue]

I'm after any more hints & tips even after reading Barb's book. I am pleating 1/2" military pleats with a shallow reduction of about 1/6". Whenever I try sewing them down I get more waves than in the North Sea. Done the pulling tight & hold bit, but especially as it's military pleats, anything other than perfect looks a mess. Any help appreciated.
Phil

Try pinning in a few places in the sewn-down part of the pleat, especially at the ends, where the size of the pleat is determined. I run my pins along the pleat, instead of perpendicular. After you get a bit sewn down, remove the pin, and keep going. You don't have to hold it down too tightly, but enough that the fabric doesn't move as you are sewing.....

I have also taken to pinning a couple of inches below the fell, to hold the dimensions of the pleat below the sewn part, to make sure that it starts out the correct width when I iron.... I also sew several bastings before ironing..... just to hold the pleats down VERY well....

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to sew all summer, all my stuff is still in storage......

Gotta get a place to live soon.......

[Barb T]

Hi Phil

When I stitch pleats, I actually use quite a few pins. It doesn't say that in my book, because my co-author, Elsie, has conniptions whenever she sees people pinning pleats. When she apprenticed in Glasgow in the 40s, her instructors beat into her that it cost time (and therefore money) to pin pleats, so she learned to put a pin at the top and a pin at the bottom and hold tight in the middle.

Me, I find that I actually pleat _faster_ if I take a few seconds to pin the pleat about roughly every 2 inches at a stripe (largely because I don't have to go back and take stuff out). And I even am anal enough to _measure_ to make sure that a centered stripe is actually centered after I pin it at 4 or 5 places along the pleat. Even on a kilt with a long fell, I do 5-6 pleats an hour, which is plenty fast enough for me, so I just don't worry about it. This is one place I don't agree with Elsie, particularly for beginners.

So, in the revision of the book, I am going to have a box about pinning pleats, but I left it out of the first edition because Elsie was adamant about not having it in.

Try that, and see how it works. It's _particularly_ important for kilts pleated to the stripe.

Also, I think 1/2" pleats at the hips are pretty tiny. Most traditional kilts have pleats that are more like 3/4" or more at the hips. Even if you don't use all your tartan (if, for example, it has a really small sett), I think your kilt will look better.

Any other questions, just ask!!

Barb