£750,000 cost of kilts for new regiment soldiers

[Doc Hudson]

Anyone who walked away from the Army because they took away his beanie, didn't deserve to wear it in the first place.

Is the Army weaker? Cav and Armor hold Bagdad. Marines hold most of the rest of the majorly troubled areas. How many rangers are in Iraq?

Shoot back in Desert Storm the only ground forces that saw combat were the Cav and the Marines.

The rangers are not an "elite" force, no matter how much they try to tell you they are. SF is elite, Pathfinders, yep, Delta Force (yeah I know they don't exist - I've seen where they don't train). The only skill rangers have over other infantry is that they knew how to wear their pretty (and stolen, again Cav wore them first and then the rangers, who then got the Cav forbidden to wear them) beanies, and they will go for days without sleep if you tell them to.

Or as MSG Sheridan (SF and fourth in the chain of command - Father, Son, Holey Ghost, MSG Sheirdan) used to say, "Rangers is stupid."

Who says Intra-Service Rivalry is a thing of the past?

[Archangel]

okay, I'm outside the loop on this dicussion, what's SF?

Got the gist of it, when I was a teenager I used to wear a black beret, that was okay, but I was told I'd have to "earn" a maroon one (British Army) tradition. Gave up the black beret and para styles after I got picked up hitch-hiking by a Belgian Congo mercenary, that was scary for a teenager. He thought I was a buddy from the Congo, very scary.

[arrogcow]

SF - Special Forces, the guys who wear the green beanies.

[bubba]

Arrogcow, here's the history.

The tradition of wearing black berets began with armored units. In 1924 the British Royal Tank Regiment adopted the first modern military beret, based on the Scottish highland bonnet and French Bretonne beret. The regiment selected the headgear for its practicality--brimless for use with armored vehicle fire control sights and black to hide grease stains. In the US Army, HQDA policy from 1973 through 1979 permitted local commanders to encourage morale-enhancing distinctions, and Armor and Armored Cavalry personnel wore black berets as distinctive headgear until CSA Bernard W. Rogers banned all such unofficial headgear in 1979. Rangers received authorization through AR 670-5, Uniform and Insignia, 30 January 1975, to wear black berets. Previously, locally authorized black berets had been worn briefly by the 10th Ranger Company (Airborne), 45th Infantry Division, during the Korean War before their movement to Korea; Company F (LRP), 52d Infantry, 1st Infantry Division, in 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam; Company H (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 1st Cavalry Division, in 1970 in the Republic of Vietnam; and Company N (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade, in 1971 in the Republic of Vietnam.

[arrogcow]

Arrogcow, here's the history.

The tradition of wearing black berets began with armored units. In 1924 the British Royal Tank Regiment adopted the first modern military beret, based on the Scottish highland bonnet and French Bretonne beret. The regiment selected the headgear for its practicality--brimless for use with armored vehicle fire control sights and black to hide grease stains. In the US Army, HQDA policy from 1973 through 1979 permitted local commanders to encourage morale-enhancing distinctions, and Armor and Armored Cavalry personnel wore black berets as distinctive headgear until CSA Bernard W. Rogers banned all such unofficial headgear in 1979. Rangers received authorization through AR 670-5, Uniform and Insignia, 30 January 1975, to wear black berets. Previously, locally authorized black berets had been worn briefly by the 10th Ranger Company (Airborne), 45th Infantry Division, during the Korean War before their movement to Korea; Company F (LRP), 52d Infantry, 1st Infantry Division, in 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam; Company H (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 1st Cavalry Division, in 1970 in the Republic of Vietnam; and Company N (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade, in 1971 in the Republic of Vietnam.

I actually found this info myself after my original post. Back when I was in, I had been told that US armor was wearing them in WWII (specificaly I was told that the 14th Cav started wearing them after the Battle of the Bulge - however I can't substantiate this). However, Cav/Armor units did start wearing them in 1973 (and they do go back to British Armor units pre WWII) and the rangers did not start wearing them until 1975.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/unifor...ory_tilley.htm

In 1979, permission was revoked for the Cav, and many berets were burned in protest.

However, to bring this all back around to the original posts, see what just a few years of a "tradition" has done in the US Army. It created all kinds of discontent when changed. I can only imagine how much more intense the feelings are when someone mucks with military traditions that go back 100's of years.

Adam

[bubba]

Arrogcow, screwing with traditions is not good for morale. Of course, desk jockys and bureacrats don't know anything about that.

[arrogcow]

Arrogcow, screwing with traditions is not good for morale. Of course, desk jockys and bureacrats don't know anything about that.

That was pretty much my point. Back when I was still in, I knew plenty of guys that harbored resentment over the rangers stealing our berets (obviously it carried over to me). Most guys I knew still had a black beret and would wear it on the first day back after an FTX (field tranining excersise), despite the fact that we weren't supposed to.

Messing with military tradition, bad.

Adam

[Miah]

All I know is that I hate the beret and there was a rumor that they wanted the entire Miltary to were them and Many Marines were all up in arms. Heck even when the Air Force almost went to those god awful blue cammies they were going to wear Marine Corps style covers, the octagon shaped ones. and people were up in arms. I know how uniform changes can bring about discontent. Heck I dislike the new digital cammies and those awful brown boots, now all Marines look like they are wearing pajamas. Nobody looks crisp and whatnot.

Good luck to the Units in the UK that have to make changes.

[sav]

Messing with military tradition, bad.

Bingo. My position summed up very succinctly.

~Sav

[Mike n NC]

Elite forces and their little mottos always tickled me. Yep we had ours also, "Death From Below" (submarine service). Then there is "Death From Above" (Airborn) and "Death From Afar" (Marine sniper) but the most frightening one I ever encountered and the one that will nearly make a grown man cry out for salvation... "Death From Within" (military mess halls). :-P

Mike