Sewing the inside pleats of AmeriKilt??

[Riverkilt]

Looking at my camo UK original it looks like the hem seam is sewn over the verticle pleat seams...this could get tricky....

Might look weird if the inside pleat seam was gone yet tacked at the hemline.

Ron

[sav]

oy! Looks like I'll need a bonnie lass like Stacy to pin me pleats! ;) Looking forward to sitting down and doing this...

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Looking at my camo UK original it looks like the hem seam is sewn over the verticle pleat seams...this could get tricky....

Might look weird if the inside pleat seam was gone yet tacked at the hemline.

Ron

That little bit of sewing is much like what you'll see in Pittsburgh Kilts. I have it in mine, and it's easy to iron-out.

You can also very-carefully use a razor blade to tackle the hemmed stitch. Don't use a "sawing" action... but rather press into the stitch. I did it that way and it worked like a charm. With half the pleats done, it looks entirely different!

I really wish that I had done this a LONG time ago!!!

[cjbass]

In the case of "fixing" a UtiliKilt, I'm referring to the stitching that extends BELOW the hips, all the way to the bottom hem. This would allow the pleats to "bend" with the curvature of your own shape.

Hmm... if you have additional curvature below the "booty line" in your kilt, then you are either truly bizarrely shaped, or not wearing your UK properly.

The Utilikilt pleats are stitched from the waistline to what we call the "booty line". The booty line is the widest part of your hips. Therefore, the kilt is stitched to your widest part, and then hangs straight down from there, like a curtain from a curtain rod.

Unstitching the pleats (inside or outside) below the booty line will have no effect at all on the fit, and will make the garment higher maintenance due to the "inside" pleats coming out, or having to be pressed all the time.

Anyway, the "curling" pleats are the ones on the face, not the interior of the garment, so this will have no effect whatsoever on reducing the amount of pleat curl. Also, curling has more to do with the different shrinkage rates of the various fabric and thread compositions than it does about any feature of the UK's construction. (i.e. - if the thread shrinks more than the fabric it is stitching down, then the fabric will pucker because the thread is pulling on it. If the fabric shrinks more than the thread, then you may have loose threads, or no visible change.)


To tie this in with other threads (ba-dum-bum... sorry!) that have appeared here recently, unstitching any pleat will then expose the drill holes that were used to locate that pleat in the first place. Opening the drill holes like that may make them grow, since the stitching is no longer holding them closed.


But really, I am at a loss for words here... I am trying to be diplomatic, but I can not imagine what thought process led anyone to think that removing a pleat-securing stitch was going to make the garment hang better... this thinking completely boggles me. The only parallel I can even think of would be if you removed all the chrome from your car so that it would go faster... the problem and solution are entirely unrelated.

(I must admit that I still have 3 pages of this thread to read through, but I figured I would make my comments where appropriate, rather than all at the end.)

Truly curious how this experiment will turn out,
- CJ
Seattle, WA

[Riverkilt]

Thanks CJ...my poor besotted mind is confused...somehow we got from sewing inside pleats on AmeriKilts to unsewing inside pleats on Utilikilts...and no..no...not the drill holes again...still healing from that one...

But AIN'T IT GREAT to have a board to run this by before doing something difficult to fix...either stitching or unstitching...

Ron

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Thanks for the thoughts CJ, but as a now-schooled kilt maker, I know what it will do to the kilt... and it DID work wonderfully. If UtiliKilt calls it a "booty line"... well... that's their problem. The fact is, no one is triangular as these pleats are sewn. There's no curvature or drape, which is why they pucker miserably. To rectify that situation, you merely need to take the pressure off the release points for the fall... which means freeing-up the under-pleating.

Now, with the undersides free... the garment washed, dried, and pressed into shape, it fits like a dream! Best part is, when I sit on it, the under pleat edges don't slice into my backside... for the first time ever. I wish I had done this a long, long time ago!

[cjbass]

Hey Jimmy,
Thanks for taking the time to talk some more about this. I do want to understand what is going on here.

As a trained fashion designer (Art Institute of Seattle, and the International Academy of Design and Technology), and as someone who has been intimately involved with the engineering and design of the Utilikilt, I think I'm pretty well up to speed on the whys and wherefores of the design of the Utilikilt body.

Thanks for the thoughts CJ, but as a now-schooled kilt maker, I know what it will do to the kilt... and it DID work wonderfully.

Can we see photos of it somewhere? I am fascinated. Seriously.

If UtiliKilt calls it a "booty line"... well... that's their problem. The fact is, no one is triangular as these pleats are sewn.

Maybe we are having a terminology problem here... I am using industry standard terms used throughout the fashion industry. Just to be clear, the Utilikilt "booty line" is the widest part of the hip, known in most patterndrafting books as the just the "hip line", or if they measure the hip into two places, the "lo hip" or "low hip". In layman's terms - if you stand sideways and look in the mirror - it is the part of your butt that sticks out the farthest.

From that point down, the kilt should not touch your body. Therefore, from that point down the Utilikilt pleats are dead straight, all the way to the hem. Not triangular at all. Dead straight.


The *only* place that there is any taper is between the waistband and this booty line. That ensures that the kilt sits on the hips, and doesn't turn into an A-shaped tent as it flares out over your hips.

The other way to tell where the taper ends is to run your hand up the inside of the pleat from the hem. When your finger stops, you have hit the booty line (which, you will notice, varies from front to back because your body does, too).

There's no curvature or drape, which is why they pucker miserably.

Pucker? Nobody ever mentioned puckering. A pucker is only really even possible while sewing the waistband on. (Unless your machine's tension is way too tight, and that would be immediately obvious by the seams not matching up because one side would be pulled harder than the other and become stretched. That would cause the pucker.)

People have talked about the pleats curling sometimes at the hemline, but I have already addressed that issue. But puckering is a new one for me.

To rectify that situation, you merely need to take the pressure off the release points for the fall... which means freeing-up the under-pleating.

Again, I guess we are gonna need some photos.

The only thing I can imagine is that the kilt doesn't fit you properly. Maybe you are wearing it too high, and so the booty line falls in the wrong place? How is it possible that modifying anything below the booty line is going to affect the fit above that line? Hmmm...

And anyway, pulling the stitching out of the underpleating will do nothing to the taper, since the top and bottom layers are stitched together. You would have to pull the threads from the face of the pleat as well as the pleat return (that's the technical term for the "back" side of the pleat that is parallel with the front). And the result of that would be a waistband with some folded fabric underneath it.

So, as you can see, I am confused. Maybe it is a terminology thing, like I said, but I am still confused.

Now, with the undersides free... the garment washed, dried, and pressed into shape, it fits like a dream! Best part is, when I sit on it, the under pleat edges don't slice into my backside... for the first time ever. I wish I had done this a long, long time ago!

Well I am definitely happy that you have found a way to wear the kilt and be happy with it! Heck, wear it on yer head for all I care... if you are happy with it, then I am happy.

Especially if the pleats were "slicing" into your hiney! Ouch! I can't imagine anyone *wanting* to wear a garment that did that to them!

On all of my kilts, the pleats fold away from my butt (starting at the center-back box pleat), and they are stitched down so they can't move. My only discomfort comes from having lots of stuff in my Original's pockets and then trying to sit in an armchair! ;-)


Anyway, again, I am glad you are happy with the kilt. I would love to see some detailed photos of your modifications, and how it looks when you wear it. There is always room to learn more things, I find!

Enjoy your freedom,
- CJ

[Riverkilt]

Hey Jimmy...buddy...pal....I'm drooling on the keyboard for photos too.

Meantime...which model UK did you modify?

Did the drill holes reemerge? Guess on the inside pleats it wouldn't matter much...??

Thanks,
Ron

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Hey Jimmy...buddy...pal....I'm drooling on the keyboard for photos too.

Meantime...which model UK did you modify?

It's a caramel Workman's that I absolutely wear to death. Uncomfortable as it was, it's still too useful not to wear.

Did the drill holes reemerge? Guess on the inside pleats it wouldn't matter much...??

Thanks,
Ron

I never had the holes that you spoke of. I guess I was the lucky one?

As for the sewing and fit of my UtiliKilt, it's exactly as I stated. It is a straight taper from waist to hem, and has no "bend" from the hip-line down. There are no curved (versus tapered) pleats and underpleating in the manufacturing which would allow the straight hang. It was sewn in a triangular fashion from top to bottom... period! AmeriKilt does the same thing. They are the ONLY kilts that I've ever owned that did not have a "worked" hipline and pleats. Add to that the fact that the material has shrunk over time (and washings), and the sewn-down pleats (over and under) have no release zone for the change. Therefore, the puckering/curling/grabbing has occurred without a way to solve the problem... other than to negate one of the tension points. That HAD to be the underpleat since the outer one needs the edging to remain crisp. In fashion designing, I have no idea what it's called. In kiltmaking, it's necessary to "bend" the material in order to maintain the straight drape and prevent pleat lines from touching (which is a begining kilt making tip). From the masters that taught me, there's a huge difference in the construction of a kilt from anything else. There's a concentration on the pattern, pleating, movement and curves that just are not a factor in other manufacturing.

The whole problem arises because I know how a real kilt "feels" on the body. If anything else is not nearly as comfortable, then I find it necessary to see why... and fix it. If I owned nothing other than UtiliKilts or AmeriKilts... I wouldn't even care about this.

Since Ron was asking about sewing the under pleats of an AmeriKilt, this was the best example of why NOT to do it. Not that it wouldn't work... but the new tension point will affect the rest of the kilt. You mess with one area on an intertwined garment like a kilt, and it will certainly affect another area.

[Riverkilt]

Hmmmm....I have a caramel workman's...wearing it to work today...hmmm...

Got me looking for the seam ripper again....hmmmm...

This unexpected thread is helping me see the difference between traditional kiltmaking and contemporary kiltmaking...one emerging from the ages, the other from a pair of pants and discomfort.

Back to the rose and the orchid. Much to be said for both.

The idea of "disassembling" something to improve it when it was made the way it is to be better is both scary and tempting....probably the only way for a lay kilter like me to resolve it is to give it a go....gasp!

Ron