Enough is Enough

[Raphael]

Now, I am Curious. What is your own experience in Kilt Lifting?

[Archangel]

I find it hard to take seriously the assumption that a peek up a kilt is sexual harrassment. That is an illogical assessment of flirting with a bit of curiosity. Add to it the mystique that is purposely put on the kilt, the willingness of LOTS of guys to have their kilts checked, and you have zero chance of winning a case for harrassment.

And I'm not sure there's any correllation between being taken seriously and letting some lass sneak a peek at your bum. It's not about seriousness; it's about fun.

Bear, you're in Canada same as me, I'm paid good money to teach on this subject. And you're dead wrong. If you want the legal breakdown, I can go through it with you. The principles would apply to most European countries, Australia and some states.
The law is weak and specific but within the limitations, kilt lifting is definitely harassment. So is talking about it, threatening it or joking about it. One of the conditions, careful here, is "unwelcome." Some here have indicated it would be okay with them, so fine but, again, careful making any application about this.
As an employer, retailer, you owe it to yourself to be more sure of this.

[Archangel]

Double Standard is double edged sword and it also helps to define Men and Women. I have no problem in living in this double standard society.

"double standard" is usually the rhetoric of the power paradigm, it really means it's okay for me, it's not okay for you. It's the language of those trying to resist changes to the status quo. If something is wrong in one area, it is wrong in another. If it truly isn't, then something in the equation is different which would make it a different standard.

My disclaimer, this sounds heavier than I mean it to, see previous post. I'm just trying to get people to see the cliches that are being used: vocabulary reflects ideology.

[Mike n NC]

Wooo, sounds like someone need to look under their kilt and get their knickers out of a knot.

Mike

[bear]

Men, (that's the gender with the outy bits), and women, (the gender with the inny bits), are different. To try and treat the two vastly different genders equally is silly.
It is entirely different for a woman to peek up a man's kilt than a man to peek up a woman's skirt.
First, men are on average bigger and stronger than women. We are able to put a stop to the peeking whenever we want, simply because of our larger physical nature.
Second, many men like kilt checks and there is a very well known and encouraged mystique about what's up the kilt that could be considered flirtatious. If all kilt wearing men stopped flirting and using the standard retorts and started wearing underwear, the kilt check idea might die in a generation. But don't hold your breath!
Double standards are a fact of life. Some work for us; some against us. All double standards are unfair as far as equality goes. The problem is, equality is a myth that will never be attained. In my opinion, equality for men and women would be a very bad thing. It is unnatural. We are of equal worth in society but we are not the same socially, mentally, or physically. Laws that try to force two genders to be treated as one are silly. Like most laws we pass these days, they are passed by people who have political agendas for one lobby group or another.
It isn't equality we need; it is fairness.
So, enough is not enough. Give me more! When some twenty-something woman wants to know the answer to the question, I will usually as, "How warm are your hands?" If she tries to peek, "I asked how warm your hands are, not how big your eyes are!"
"Hey! Pretend you're a lady and go up the back!"

[Freedomlover]

Now, I am Curious. What is your own experience in Kilt Lifting?

I assume this is directed to me?

I have worn the kilt here, there, and everywhere for more than 40 years. And never--not once--has anyone been so gauche as to attempt a peek. Comments? Oh, yes, lot's of those, but nothing more.

Now I don't want to stir anyone up, but I strongly suspect that many, if not most, such stories are pure wishful thinking.

[arrogcow]

Men, (that's the gender with the outy bits), and women, (the gender with the inny bits), are different. To try and treat the two vastly different genders equally is silly.
It is entirely different for a woman to peek up a man's kilt than a man to peek up a woman's skirt.
First, men are on average bigger and stronger than women. We are able to put a stop to the peeking whenever we want, simply because of our larger physical nature.

So is it ok for a little guy to check under the skirt of a big woman uninvited?

Second, many men like kilt checks and there is a very well known and encouraged mystique about what's up the kilt that could be considered flirtatious.

Many women like to flash their tits, but that doesn't mean all women want to or should feel obligated to.

Encouraging kilt checks in the name of fun, actually leads to the view that all of us kilt wearers are just deviants, wanting to flash. Personally I want to wear a kilt because it is comfortable, practical and I look good. While I realize that it is outside of the cultural norm, I would prefer not to be looked at like I'm a pervert for wearing it. And frankly that is how many people see us.

Adam

[Schultz]

When some twenty-something woman wants to know the answer to the question, I will usually as, "How warm are your hands?" If she tries to peek, "I asked how warm your hands are, not how big your eyes are!"

I think the original poster was venting some steam regarding people who don't ask and just peek. Of course wearing a kilt is going to illicit some sort of questioning. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, it goes with the territory, so to speak.

But the actual laying of hands on someone without asking?

Not acceptable no matter what you're wearing.

[bear]

Bear, you're in Canada same as me, I'm paid good money to teach on this subject. And you're dead wrong. If you want the legal breakdown, I can go through it with you. The principles would apply to most European countries, Australia and some states.
The law is weak and specific but within the limitations, kilt lifting is definitely harassment. So is talking about it, threatening it or joking about it. One of the conditions, careful here, is "unwelcome." Some here have indicated it would be okay with them, so fine but, again, careful making any application about this.

If a woman repeatedly lifted a man's kilt after being told not to, I could see it being considered harrassment and maybe an offense. The woman would more likely be fired from her job where she did the harrassing or get some other lesser punishment before going to court.
One flip of the pleats is not going to court.

As an employer, retailer, you owe it to yourself to be more sure of this.

I have no employees and I'm not flipping my kilt at customers or exposing myself to anyone.
I refuse to live cautiously, in fear I might do something wrong and get sued.
Life is too short for any of this crap. Some guys need to get all angry because some woman wants to see up their kilt? If that's the worst thing to happen to you in a day, you're a lucky man!
I've got a steady procession of crackheads going by my store right now. Nobody is asking what's in their clothing and I'm sure they would trade lives with anyone of us wearing a kilt right now, even if they had to endure an occasional kilt check.
Any takers?
No?
Of course, if getting attention from women is offensive to you, you could always wear pants.

[Freedomlover]

Encouraging kilt checks in the name of fun, actually leads to the view that all of us kilt wearers are just deviants, wanting to flash. Personally I want to wear a kilt because it is comfortable, practical and I look good. While I realize that it is outside of the cultural norm, I would prefer not to be looked at like I'm a pervert for wearing it. And frankly that is how many people see us.

Adam

Thank you. You get it. One or two here just don't.