Scottish names vs. English or Irish

[Doc Hudson]

Possibly the Russians... perhaps not formally, as your last name is always your father's first name plus "ovitch" but as a nickname/friendly name.

I remember hearing Dr. Curt Porter in a Russian History class talking about this years ago. He spoke of the widespread problem of illegitamacy during and shortly after the "Great Patriotic War", known elsewhere as World War II. And owing to Russian custom, a patronymic was required. Most of the got stuck with Ivanovich or Ivanova (for son or daughter of Ivan) as a patronymic.

Dr. Porter said it was almost as if some powerful and potent Ivan Ivanovich was striding across the land impregnating Russian girls right, left and center.

Funny the things that stick in theback of your mind for nearly 30 years and leap to the surface with just little nudge.

BTW, the patronymic is more of a middle name than a last name. The Russians use ordinary family names, the patronymic just identifies who the father is. For example Vassily Ivanovich Zhukov's son Andre's full name would be Andre Vassilivich Zhukov.

[macwilkin]

I remember hearing Dr. Curt Porter in a Russian History class talking about this years ago. He spoke of the widespread problem of illegitamacy during and shortly after the "Great Patriotic War", known elsewhere as World War II. And owing to Russian custom, a patronymic was required. Most of the got stuck with Ivanovich or Ivanova (for son or daughter of Ivan) as a patronymic.

Dr. Porter said it was almost as if some powerful and potent Ivan Ivanovich was striding across the land impregnating Russian girls right, left and center.

Funny the things that stick in theback of your mind for nearly 30 years and leap to the surface with just little nudge.

BTW, the patronymic is more of a middle name than a last name. The Russians use ordinary family names, the patronymic just identifies who the father is. For example Vassily Ivanovich Zhukov's son Andre's full name would be Andre Vassilivich Zhukov.

When I attempted to read "Doctor Zhivago" (I never finished it), I had to make a "crib sheet" of all of the character's names, nicknames, etc.

Cheers,

Todd

[An t-Ileach]

Wasn't the original steward a Breton/Norman -or perhaps a Fleming - called FitzAlan?

[Cawdorian]

The original Stewart was Fitz Alan whose father was Fitz Walter. (I'm quoting this from memory so don't hold me to it.) I'll have to look when I get home to be sure I am correct.

Jim

[macwilkin]

The original Stewart was Fitz Alan whose father was Fitz Walter. (I'm quoting this from memory so don't hold me to it.) I'll have to look when I get home to be sure I am correct.

Jim

The prefix "Fitz" is actually a Norman term for "son of" -- That is why you have many Irish surnames like Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, FitzWilliam, etc., because the Normans were "invited" to Ireland in 1169 and were soon assimilated into Irish society. The Anglo-Normans also moved to Scotland, and some of the most famous Scottish names -- Bruce, Hay, Grant, etc. are actually Norman in origin.

My clan loyalty is to the Cummings (originally spelled "Comyn"), who were Anglo-Normans from the border between Normandy and Flanders.

Cheers,

Todd

[davedove]

The prefix "Fitz" is actually a Norman term for "son of" -- That is why you have many Irish surnames like Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, FitzWilliam, etc., because the Normans were "invited" to Ireland in 1169 and were soon assimilated into Irish society. The Anglo-Normans also moved to Scotland, and some of the most famous Scottish names -- Bruce, Hay, Grant, etc. are actually Norman in origin.

My clan loyalty is to the Cummings (originally spelled "Comyn"), who were Anglo-Normans from the border between Normandy and Flanders.

Cheers,

Todd

It really makes you wonder about some people who so fiercely claim there heritage is from a certain country when you think about things like this. For instance, in Scottish history there is a lot of conflict between the Scottish and the English, both fiercely claiming their own heritage, when in fact both sides claim a lot of Norman bloodlines.

Personally, I am mainly English and German, with a handful of Scottish and Irish, maybe a sprinkling of Welsh and French. But the Scottish and English lines also have ties to France, Germany, and the Scandinavian countries. I guess that makes me a true American, or in other words, a mutt.

[bubba]

Take it back far enough and we can all claim African heritage. Humans have been fiddlefooted from the beginning.

[jfellrath]

BTW, the patronymic is more of a middle name than a last name. The Russians use ordinary family names, the patronymic just identifies who the father is. For example Vassily Ivanovich Zhukov's son Andre's full name would be Andre Vassilivich Zhukov.

Thanks, Doc. I knew I was remembering that from somewhere. I think I actually recalled it from a Tom Clancy novel - when Jack Ryan's Soviet Counterpart would refer to him as Ivan Emmetovich.

[Ranald]

Chap, hi there, do yourself a favour if you've into name history get the book the Surnames of Scotland by George F.Black, much of what you need to know is in there.I got the book and as well as Mc and Mac also the S taged on the end of ones name can also mean son of.
Best of luck.