Accidental Business

[Iolaus]

Some day, they'll go too far and the people will rise up. The politicians are going to look at each other in confusion and say "What are they mad at? ... What'd we do?"

That's what happened the first time around anyway. ;)

[LordDamax]

The laws are crazy in most states. Some are put in place for very good reasons (public safety and such), but most are just there so the state can make some more money.

The seperate kitchen thing I understand, makes sense to me. Hell, I'd WANT a seperate kitchen. My mom did hair for years, wanted to do it in her home (whole section of the basement was a hair studio... she had the professional hair washing sink, the sit-down hair dryer things, etc) but didnt because of regulations. Seperate bathroom (I get that), seperate entrance (eeh, not sure on that one) and stuff like that.

But $1200 for application fees?? Sounds like the city doesnt WANT anyone to own a business there. It's proven fact that cities, towns, states, countries that stifle businesses from opening are financially worse off than those that encourage it. In India you damn near need to inherit your business license, and the place is poor as dirt. Hong Kong it costs about $5 for a business license, and it's rolling in economical prosperity.

But, I digress. The capatailst in me was breaking free there for a moment.

Any chance of moving somewhere that you won't be told by your town, "Sorry, we don't want you doing business here!"? If there is $1200 in fees just to APPLY for the license, I'd imagine the fines for operating a business without a license would be astronomical. I'd be careful. Here in MD if I do home contracting without a license there's jail time involved.

[Dreadbelly]

If I actually owned a brick and mortar store, the fees would be peanuts. They want to revitalise the downtown area. So they hiked the home based business fees right through the roof and getting a business license if you own a store is super cheap.

I can't afford a store. I can't open a brick and mortar business and sell to the tourists and become a solid fixture in the downtown economy. Heck, like I said, just to get a one day permit to sell things to passersby, just to sit at one of the bistro tables down at the plaza and sell trinkets and shinies to the foot traffic that goes by would be 375 dollars between the hours of 9 am and 3 pm. Past 3 pm evening hours apply and the fee goes up an additional 25 dollars PER HOUR PAST 3 O' CLOCK.

They don't want small home based business stealing sales away from the regular fixtures downtown.

I am not sure what this might do for my metal working business, but I reckon most of it will be online. Probably eBay, if I can get away with operating a business there with out a license. So much for being a law abiding tax paying citizen. This is robbery.

What's really scary, is there is no mention at all what the actual license cost is. Only the fees and the paperwork costs. Not one mention of the actual license cost. Which honestly frightens me. It's probably an astronomical figure. I never bothered to ask.

Oh. And it seems that according to the back of this piece of paper, it is illegal in the city limits to operate a business out of a rented residence. Home based business must be run out of an actual home it seems, not a rented apartment.

You know, this just, erm, well, I don't want to offend our kind and gracious hosts of this forum, but this just inhales sharply.

[Archangel]

Dread, I really sympathize, I wanted to start a business years ago and the costs here were so prohibitive.
Now the city seems to be realizing the damage it created.

Here's one that might help you. They've recently changed/modified that last bylaw so the reverse is legal. You can live in an apartment over, or back of, your store but you can't have a store in your house. That subtle difference is revitalizing our end of town.

[davedove]

If I actually owned a brick and mortar store, the fees would be peanuts. They want to revitalise the downtown area. So they hiked the home based business fees right through the roof and getting a business license if you own a store is super cheap.

I understand their line of thinking. They don't want temporary, fly by night salesmen. They want the solid permanent business owners who are going to stay a while. But their thinking doesn't go far enough. Who do they think grows their business enough to eventually buy a store - the small time businesses working out of basements and garages. I guess all they want is corporate chains to come in.

[Dreadbelly]

Dread, I really sympathize, I wanted to start a business years ago and the costs here were so prohibitive.
Now the city seems to be realizing the damage it created.

Here's one that might help you. They've recently changed/modified that last bylaw so the reverse is legal. You can live in an apartment over, or back of, your store but you can't have a store in your house. That subtle difference is revitalizing our end of town.

I live on 800 dollars a month in disability. I pay 250 dollars a month on rent for an apartment in a retirement community. All the apartments in the back of the store in the world can't help me now. I am not trying to get rich quick here. I am not even trying to cheat the system. I am trying to keep food on the table and maybe an extra kilt or two around my middle. And I can't just go back to work... I have $80,000 dollars in hospital bills waiting to be garnished off my wages and if I did get a job, I would have 30 days to move out of where I live. I just wanted a little tiny bit of work to bring in the odd dollar here and there just to try and buy a creature comfort here and there. And even if I wanted to get a "regular job" no outfit in the world would even think of hiring me because of my medical expenses.

I am not trying to create some massive empire. Just a buck here and there is all I want... And I truly believe that it is entirely reasonable to ask for it. I am willing to work for it... And it doesn't seem like I am allowed to.

I also found out if I applied for a revenue permit that they would kill my social security disability checks and cut my medicare and medicaid.

Which is farking stupid if you ask me. I am just trying to keep my head above water here, not cheat the bloody system.

You know, if I really wanted to make money, I could start making money hand over fist selling drugs or doing illegal stuff on the computer, which would be all to easy for me. But I have this problem about being a good and decent person which I am always being kicked in my fecking teeth for.

I don't think I am being unreasonable here. I just want a chance to tread water and have some sort of life.

It's so frusterating and it pisses me off... And it makes me want to drink to go and shut my damn brain up. Everything. It all builds up to so much pressure.

[usndoc]

Can you make cookies for a few friends that reimburse you for your expenses? Your not running a business. And so what if they give you a little extra for your time. :-)

I have seen it done.

My grandfather has made the best coconut cakes for years. People would call him up before an event and tell him that they would pay for the ingredients if he made one for them. Naturally they would give him extra.

He was providing a service to a friend that they could not do. It was not a business at all.

[LordDamax]

What? The system, which says they want to get you out of the system and better yourself, is doing all it can to keep you in the system? No! It cant be! The government wouldn't do something like that! They WANT you to get a job and better yourself! Or at least thats the lip-service they pay.

Yeah that was dripping with sarcasm. It's too damn lucrative to be 'in the system' and there is nothing but incentives to stay in. Why would Dread bother trying to get out of it, if they punish him for doing so?

Anyway, this isnt a thread about my views of disability and welfare and all the other crap that "helps" so many people.

(and I do say as a side note, for those who truly deserve it and need it, it's a good thing. But by making it nearly impossible to leave it, or, rather, making it so you don't want to... now who's being helped?)

As for ebay Dread, go for it. There's damn near no regulation on it, and no one reports to anyone else the volume of sales you make. I'd be willing to bet your city doesnt have regulations on what is "casual sales" on ebay and what is "business sales". I have made thousands of dollars on ebay in the last 12 months, mainly by finding good discounted items with good rebates and buying them with coupons, then selling the items on ebay. ($500 color laser printer from Staples cost me $130, and I sold it on ebay for $325, or leatherman tools on amazon with discounts and freebies that I sell for a $20 profit each) I wouldnt say it's a business, but I've made small-business-like income on it. Who's to say I'm not just buying low and selling high? Who's to say i'm in business?

Now if you MAKE jewelry that MAY be another issue, but, prove it's a business. I call it a hobby. Oh, I'm getting rich off of it? Prove it. Paypal isn't required to report your income to the IRS, because how do they know it's "income". Money orders mailed to your home and deposited in your bank... unless it's over $10,000 your bank doesnt care.

My mom buys tons of fabric and lace at super discounted prices (she knows where to shop) and sells it on ebay, to the tune of $500-$800 a month in profit. It's a home based hobby for her. No license, no fees, and no one to prove she has to pay em.

I say use your line of credit to buy good tools and supplies, make some stuff, and load it up on ebay. I'd be happy to help if you're not an ebay expert (there's tons of tools and easy ways to handle payment, shipping methods, inventory, etc).

Once you're making good money off ebay maybe you can afford to open a B&M store, Gotta start somewhere. Shame your city doesn't want you to.

[davedove]

Now if you MAKE jewelry that MAY be another issue, but, prove it's a business. I call it a hobby. Oh, I'm getting rich off of it? Prove it. Paypal isn't required to report your income to the IRS, because how do they know it's "income". Money orders mailed to your home and deposited in your bank... unless it's over $10,000 your bank doesnt care.

I can't say anything about your local laws, but starting as a hobby would be a good way to start. In fact the IRS would rather it was a hobby. However, if you happen to make a small profit, it is taxable. In fact if you claim it's a business and you DON'T make a profit for too many years (I'd have to check to see how many), THEY will declare it's a hobby and disallow any business losses.

[LordDamax]

If you DO choose to report it to the IRS as a hobby, all expenses are deductable up to the cost of your profits (IE: If it's a business you caqn deduct losses. If it's a hobby you can offset profits with losses, but cannot actually claim a deduction).

Assuming you choose to report it, that is.