casual kilts, work kilts, and nice kilts

[RockyR]

Now, on the other hand, many of the contemporary kilt styles, such as Utilikilts, or kilts made from a non-woolen material, really are *designed* for casual wear, and will look out of place if worn to a formal occasion, especially one in which a traditional kilt is expected.

I agree with most things Matt says, but I don't agree with this completely. There are a few contemporary kilt companies that DO look "traditional enough" to wear to formal events... If you take a FK (inch wide pleats model) and get it without the buttons, it's a sharp "traditional looking" solid kilt. If you take a Poly Viscose kilt and sew it up properly, give it straps and buckles and fringe, it can be (to the untrained eye) pretty darn close to a wool kilt. It's not until you inspect it close up (and touch it) that you know it's not wool. We've had many customers get married in our Semi Traditional model. We've had several pipers buy our Semi Traditional b/c it's cooler and much more cost effective than wool. When they're marching alongside of other pipers in a parade, you can't pick out the PV vs. the wool.

Would I try to pass off our Casual model (or a Bearkilt or Sportkilt) for a "Kilt to get married in"? No. Are they formal enough to pipe in? No. Can we go to the store in them? Yup... that's what they were designed for.

I'm just saying that SOME "alternative material" kilts are found to be dressy enough to wear to weddings and / or pipe in.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Rocky has a good point. Take Lochcarron's "casual kilts." They are machine stitched from four yards of cloth. But they are made from the same woolen tartan as any of their other kilts. They are knife pleated, have the same leather straps and buckles. In other words, the only difference between it and one of their normal kilts is that it has half as much cloth (and so fewer pleats) and is machine stitched. From a distance, most people would not notice a big difference.

I wouldn't recommend getting one of these in light weight cloth, but in a medium or heavy weight wool it does quite well. And wear it with a nice black Argyle jacket or even a Prince Charlie, with ghillie brouges and a formal sporran, and you'll look quite nice. If you had the choice between this and a hand tailored kilt, I'd say wear your hand tailored one -- but if this was all you had, you'd be fine.

Now the more you start to deviate from the standard, the less likely it is that you'd want to wear it to a formal event. A machine stitched kilt, made from only four yards of a light weight acrylic cloth, with a smaller than usual sett, designed to sit on the hips, etc., etc., would not work. In other words, if the kilt is designed specifically to be casual wear, I wouldn't wear it outside of that context.

But I still stand by my earlier statement that a mark of a good kilt is that it can be worn casually or formally, depending on the accessories.

Aye,
Matt

[RockyR]

Rocky has a good point. Take Lochcarron's "casual kilts." They are machine stitched from four yards of cloth. But they are made from the same woolen tartan as any of their other kilts. They are knife pleated, have the same leather straps and buckles. In other words, the only difference between it and one of their normal kilts is that it has half as much cloth (and so fewer pleats) and is machine stitched. From a distance, most people would not notice a big difference.

I wouldn't recommend getting one of these in light weight cloth, but in a medium or heavy weight wool it does quite well. And wear it with a nice black Argyle jacket or even a Prince Charlie, with ghillie brouges and a formal sporran, and you'll look quite nice. If you had the choice between this and a hand tailored kilt, I'd say wear your hand tailored one -- but if this was all you had, you'd be fine.

Now the more you start to deviate from the standard, the less likely it is that you'd want to wear it to a formal event. A machine stitched kilt, made from only four yards of a light weight acrylic cloth, with a smaller than usual sett, designed to sit on the hips, etc., etc., would not work. In other words, if the kilt is designed specifically to be casual wear, I wouldn't wear it outside of that context.

But I still stand by my earlier statement that a mark of a good kilt is that it can be worn casually or formally, depending on the accessories.

Aye,
Matt

Matt... I think we're close in thoughts and on the other small points, we can agree to disagree.

The point I was trying to make above... the MATERIAL ALONE does not (IMHO) dictate whether a kilt is "dressy enough" to wear to a formal event. It's a combination of the material AND the way it's made. I wasn't aware that Lochcarron's 4 yarders were made to sit on the hips. That's too low to wear with an Argyl Jkt. Conversely, if a PV or Solid color Cotton blend (or whatever) kilt is sewn up "traditionally" so that it gives the appearance of a "traditional wool kilt", it would be more than acceptable to dress up for a GOOD percentage of the kilt wearing public. He11... UK had (or has) a "Tuxedo Model" kilt. I think that saying THAT isn't dressy enough to wear to a formal event (with jacket, bowtie, etc) might raise an eyebrow or two.

Also, as Iain points out, people posting on XMARKS generally know a GOOD DEAL more than the average Joe on the street. There are differing schools of thought on what is "dressy enough" to wear with a jacket and tie and this is where we'll "agree to disagree".

I'm sure that MANY people (of the "old school") will INSIST that ONLY an 8 yard wool kilt worn with ALL of the proper accessories would be acceptable enough to wear at a wedding or funeral. If that's how they feel, that's FINE for them! They will look FANTASTIC at all times! Personally, I would only wear an 8 yard wool kilt to a formal event (because I have 7 of them) and have all of the other things to complete the outfit.

However, with the average "beginner" to "moderate" kilt wearer (who may not have $1500 + to spend on a complete top of the line outfit), the more affordable PV version of an 8 yard wool kilt is a VERY viable option for dress occasions and most times, attendees of the event will not even KNOW it's not wool, much less a "Handsewn 8 yard kilt".

On a slight tangent...

This is what debates should be... a friendly exchange of ideas which can be boiled down to figure out where the differences lie. At that point, one of the people may change their mind. If not, then we HAPPILY agree to disagree and know that this is what makes freedom of speech great! My hat's off to you Matt.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Just one point of clarification -- Lochcarron's casual kilts are not made to sit on the hips. Sorry if I gave that impression. My point was in fact that they are made exactly like a standard kilt except that they only use half the cloth, and they are machine stitched, rather than hand stitched. Most uninformed observers never notice the difference.

Aye,
Matt

[yoippari]

I agree that the amount of material doesn't matter as much as the construction. Most knife pleated 4 yard kilts are the cheaper machine stiched but there are of course exceptions. From everything I have read a box pleated kilt can be a "full" kilt at four yards or less. Knife pleated does not seem to be "complete" at four yards because of how the yardage is used. Once again, its the construction that counts.

The family tartan is for the other side of the family. The tartan is buchanan where my ties to buchanan are my mothers family which is gibson (a sept of buchanan). My fathers grandmother is Steward. My grandmother has Robson in her but I can't find any tartan for them. Possibly because they were a lowlander/border family. Oh and that side of my family is fairly redneck. I don't mean this in a derogitory manner, but even my dad calls himself and family redneck. Most of that side of the family dislikes my long hair and doesn't understand why I make maille and my interest in swords. I don't expect most of them to like the kilt, but I may be plesently suprised.

The question of where to wear something like a stillwater (or other budget kilt) is somewhat unanswered. With this it isn't just an issue of color/pattern or of material but of quality of construction. It isn't tailored, so they don't fit quite as well.

[Brasilikilt]

I agree whole heartedly with much of what has been said.
I think everyone here in this thread has given good answers and put solid reasoning behind them.

I personally think that you can take pretty much any "normal" kilt be it a tartan or plain and *make* it work for formal or casual by matching it up with the proper clothing and accoutrements.
I think that a Utilikilt (although it might not look as nice as a traditional woolen 8 yarder) when matched up with a nice shirt, jacket, tie etc can look *very* sharp!
Take these guys for instanceignore the guy's white basketball shoes)




As for my new USA Kilt (thanks again Rocky!) or Nubia's good ol' Brasilikilt I would feel quite comfortable wearing it in a formal setting because it's a KILT, plain and simple......I've read many posts on this forum about people stopping to ask a guy in his kilt if he's a bagpiper, or going to some kind of formal event. A kilt to a lot of people says "He must be dressing up to go somewhere nice."
Just the other day, some of the little neighbor girls were asking me why I was wearing my kilt, before I could answer their grandmother said "He must be going to some formal event" I simply explained that I wear it because I like it.

It's very safe to say that we on this forum know much more about kilts than your average person off the streets.
Most people don't know much, if anything about the differences between 4 yard, 8 yard, polyvicose or worsted wool.....most people wouldn't know to look and see if your kilt was fastened with belts and buckles, velcro or snaps

I mean......If someone were to make a snooty remark, or downtalks to me about wearing my kilt to a formal event, I can say with confidence "I had my kilt custom tailored.....what about your pants?"
Even the more modestly priced kilts are still expensive well crafted garments which are (for the most part) custom tailored to fit the people ordering them......
To me that says you're willing to put in the extra money and effort to look really nice........anywhere you go!
A kilt was never designed for someone to look poor, slovenly or disheveled.
A kilt was made for the person wearing it to proudly distinguish themselves as an individual who has class and isn't worried about what anyone else thinks!

I hope that despite all my rambling I was able to make a few points you all can identify with :-)

When you're kilted, you're a cut above the rest!

Iain