feeling special is not OK

[Thistle Stop]

OK, apparently *someone*...wife won't tell me who, said " that's not a good reason for wearing a kilt. "Feeling special" should come from INSIDE a person, not from other people." ... What do you all think about that "feeling special should come from inside" comment vis a vis kilt-wearing?

If you didn't already "feel special on the inside", you wouldn't have the guts to wear a kilt! Most kilt-wearers have plenty of confidence and feel good about themselves. Those that don't fit that description are usually trying for shock-effect and/or looking to pick a fight with the next boyo that gets in their face... but that's not a typical X-Marker, and it's certainly not our Alan H.

(And, for the record, when I say "boyo" I don't necessarily mean a Welshman! Could as well be a Jock, Mick, Yank, Pommy... I advocate equal-opportunity casting of cultural epithets.)

Besides, to say that "feeling special" is not a good reason to wear a kilt is a load of c-r-r-rap, in my opinion. A kilt is special -- more than most other garments, it signifies pride in one's heritage (well, at least if one is of Scottish extraction), and that's a fine quality. The kilt symbolises all that is Scotland, and that certainly makes it "special". So why shouldn't you enjoy "feeling special" when you wear it? Our clothing (or lack of it) inevitably says something about us, and as far as I'm concerned, the kilt says nothing but good things about you.

Don't be taken in by that sophomoric, PC psychobabble. Of course you "feel special" in your kilt, as well you should. You look pretty special in it too. Your "insides" are your own damn business!

[Thistle Stop]

Now that I've gone through and read all the other posts, I want to say that I agree that it can be a noble thing, and often the right thing, to sacrifice one's personal desires for the sake of someone else's priorities -- especially a spouse.

Yet... I find sadness in the O. Henry story, "The Gift of the Magi" (hopefully everyone's familiar with it). I know it's supposed to be heartwarming, but my feeling is that the couple could have been just as happy with no special presents, just knowing -- because they know, not because any action was required to prove it -- that they love each other enough to sacrifice anything for their beloved. And then they'd still have those special possessions -- her long hair, his gold watch -- that gave them such pleasure, instead of the useless watch chain and hair ornament. In my view, it was just foolish of each of them to give up their greatest treasures as they did, however generous the impulse.

I hope I never read on XMarks, some cold day in January, that one of our kilt-wearing guys sold all his kilts to buy his beloved a week's course at an inner enlightenment seminar (for both of them, of course), whilst she went out and hocked all her self-help books to get him a Prince Charlie coatee and all the trimmings so they could attend the Burn's Nicht Supper in style! (However, if it should happen, don't forget I can rent you a kilt! ;))

I prefer to celebrate who we are, and encourage my husband to do and be whatever makes him happy, rather than to give up some part of myself, or something that makes me happy, to satisfy some perceived expectation or demand of his and thus "prove" my love for him. I want him to think the same way. I don't think it's selfish.

The economic issue is a serious thing, though, and if a man is endangering his family's security by wearing a kilt to work, then he shouldn't do it. There are plenty of other occasions where the kilt can be worn, though, and he ought to be able to do so, with no sense of guilt about it. His wife should support his kilt-wearing simply because it gives him pleasure and causes no harm to anyone.

[davedove]

The economic issue is a serious thing, though, and if a man is endangering his family's security by wearing a kilt to work, then he shouldn't do it.

That is very true, and if his wearing of kilts is truly endangering his financial security, he has a serious problem. I know everyone on this board supports kilt wearing, but we all have to recognize that's it's just a piece of clothing, and not worth ruining our life.

I know, I know, I can here the lynch mob outside now!

[cormacmacguardhe]

There is nothing wrong with feeling special, and of course it comes from inside. As several of the members have said, what happens outside does affect the inside of a person. When I wear my kilt, I feel special, not just because of how people respond to me, but also because it tells me something about myself. I am different from those around me, I do not go along with the crowd of sheeple. I see no harm, in fact I see good in that. Mindless automatons are what big brother wants, I will not be one, I will stand out. I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Been off-line since posting to this thread earlier this afternoon. I can only say that all of your responses leave me speechless, grateful, and somewhat teary-eyed (and I am not that easy to reach like that, my wife referred to me as "the rock" for the whole family when we lost my brother-in-law suddenly earlier this year to liver disease). Not that I think that I am unemotional, I just tend to try to work things through for myself and don't tend to share them. This works well most of the time when I am dealing with issues that don't involve my wife, as she is my support network, but when it is an issue that affects or deals with her, I am left with no one to lean on if I need it.

Macg, those we love can (and do) hurt us the most. The ones who can push our buttons the quickest and the easiest are those who know us the best, and after almost 20 years together, we certainly know each other well!

It looks like your wife is reacting out of fear, & she may not be aware of all the trouble you went to make sure kilting at the office would be OK. You might show her the thread where you delineated to us all that you did to get clearance. OTOH, she may fear that while it is OK for you to wear the kilt to work, those who could promote you may not be so keen on it (the kilt that is) & therefore not so keen on promoting you.

You two will have to have a good talk; & tho' it's too late for this one, next time you feel you must walk away because there is no time for a lengthy discussion, let her know that you do want to talk it out with her but you want to do it when you both have the time the issue deserves, or that she deserves, whichever is fitting.

Sherry, you are right on! This has been a very difficult year that has seen the sudden death of my wife's sister's husband due to liver disease, the loss of my job due to a merger, and a cross country move (Tampa to Chicago) to start a new job. She is very concerned due to my being in a new company and how wearing the kilt might affect my raises, promotions, etc., which is where the discussion this morning began. This morning I was certainly to blame, and said so to her, in not agreeing to discuss the issue later when we had more time instead of just not responding. I saw it as a case of not getting into a discussion that would lead to an argument and long conversation, but I agree that to her it seemed like I did not care for what she thought, which is not true.

I also sincerely appreciate your input from another women's perspective.

RJI

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Alan, I don't know even where to begin to respond to your post! And I mean that in a good way. I think that I will try the post a snippet and respond method.

These are tough issues, and when you love someone, there aren't easy answers. The old "I'll do what I want and everyone else can just EAT it." attitude doesn't work so well, when the objections are from your spouse and you love them.

100% agreement on this. As I said before, nobody can push our buttons like our family and those that we love. I am really not trying to take that attitude here, which does not mean that I have succeeeded in not taking that attitude. But if I am honest, and I have been with my wife, I have never cared what anybody else thought about me or my decisions. To paraphrase my favorite author "If 10,000 people say something is true and I say it is false, then it is up to the 10,000 to prove their claim".

I'd say this... make sure that she knows the lengths to which you went to get the OK at work. Talk to her, kindly and wisely and LISTEN. LISTEN, and listen hard and try to understand what she is saying. Listen to see if she is understanding what you are saying. Consider the option of compromise, as in, what if you wear a kilt to work one-two days a week instead of every day? Is that workable?

This was actually the first thing I made sure to communicate to her today after I got to work and had a chance to talk with her. She still has a concern that my manager and HR might give lip service to being OK with the kilt but it might still be detrimental at review time. I might be willing to consider a compromise, but right now the wording of the compromise my wife's almost exact words) is that I can do what I want on my personal time, but should not wear a kilt to work on any regular basis except for casual days, which happens once in a blue moon. I would be completely fine, both with my wife and work, if both said they did not care what I wore, or when, and to leave me the choice. Maybe this is being stiff-necked or unreasonable, but if it is acceptable to wear at all, then I see it no different than when I decided a few years ago to wear nothing but flowery, hawaiian type shirts to the office. It was my choice whether I wore one or a standard Izod/Polo shirt or a solid color button-down.

Here's an insight that might help. I'm an enthusiastic sort of fellow. If you don't like me, you could substitute the word "erratic" for "ethusiastic". Some people do. I tend to get interested in things for a few months or a year or two and then move on. I'm not like that regarding *everything*, I've been sailing for fifteen years for example, but I do it a lot. My wife sees these activites that I have for 6 - 24 months as "hobbies".

She is concerned that I'm indulging a "hobby" ....kilts....which I will have for a year, at most two. She's afraid that I'll move on in a year or so and not be so interested in them, but that in the process of wearing them to work, I'll have torpedo'ed part of my career.

I have to be honest with myself...she has a point, in terms of my "enthusiasm".. We don't have kids so it's not so much of a big deal, but she does have a point.

Hmmh, let's see my first post was on 9/14 at 9:26pm and it is now 10/4 at 10:13pm (does this prove a point regarding type A or anal retentive personality?) and I am up to 216 posts, not including this one. Some quick math comes up with over 11 posts per day. Excessive? Maybe (Graham is only at 7.02 per day according to a quick look at his profile!), and I will grant that I tend to the "enjoy life to excess" philosophy.

Are you in the same boat? Think it over. I will also be honest with you and tell you that I wonder. You have only been on XMarks for a few weeks, and yet you've put up a couple hundred posts, and have undertaken a major assault on the world....wearing a kilt to work in a very conservative financial institution. It's not like you've been wearing kilts for years, eh? Are you like me...the enthusiastic sort, that sometimes people see, as much as they love us, as a little bit erratic?

Be fair, be honest with yourself and with her, and think it over. What if you wore a kilt to work only one day a week for three months. You know, "casual friday"? How would that go over? Offer compromises?? Slow down a bit?? If she cannot offer compromises back, if her stance is "my way or the highway...lose the kilts or I'm leaving" then you have to do some serious thinking.

Alan, I think that I need to plan a kilt night with you in CA as we appear to be very similar in personality! I think that the boat in question is called the "SS ??". Sorry, couldn't come up with a good name while going through this process of self analysis! Am I in the same boat, i.e. somewhat compulsive, obsessed, and prone to going off on a tear on a new interest? Hell yes! I recognized that in myself a long time ago, but it did not affect my wife because most of the topics were in my work life exclusively, or teaching classes, participating on discussion boards, activities we shared like scuba diving, etc.. Not sure if people would have said I was erratic per se, as much as maybe obsessive compulsive. (Research Note to self, why does wearing the kilt lead to so many opportunities to share those things that I have never shared or vocalized before?).

You love her...is she worth the kilts? Kilts...wife, I know which one wins out in my book. I like kilts, but I love my wife. It's no contest, and the kilts stay on the hanger and only come down for Highland Games and Celtic music events....but wait..

Does she love you? If she did, would she give you no options, dictate her way and give you no alternatives? Is that love? What kind of love? Have you ever dictated anything like that to her? Is she IN FACT, doing that?

Tough questions, mate, and I bet you won't have answers tomorrow. It's going to take a while, and the answers you'll find are worth more than a closet full of custom-made worsted wool tanks.

Good luck.

Simple answer, as I listen to her coughing with a cold upstairs, is that I married my best friend when I said "I do" over 17 years ago and I think that we still have that, but kids and everyday life has strained it. Does she love me, I think yes. Have I shocked her, caused her to adapt to a sudden change, as well as moved across country and lost someone to liver disease, yes! Does she love me, I sincerely hope so.

This has been a long response for me and I have yet to see what others have posted (or read the other 150 posts since I last logged in) so I will end with thanks again to Alan and the others that were there to post encouraging responses.
RJI

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Nothing is worth your marriage. Its give and take.
Hey if you want to wear the kilt to work do so. But maybe mark it down
on a calender for several times a month and agree with your wife these
are the days.

Remember the old saying- "drop a frog in boiling water and it will jump out, put it in cool water and gently heat it up and it will stay"

Take it slow, you've already worn you kilt to work and its not even Oct. 31,
mission done.

dave

Dave, I quite agree! The part I am struggling with right now, that I did not include in my post to Alan, is that I am pushing the envelope at a large financial institution. Today was only the 3rd day kilted, first day was last friday (a special "casual day") to celebrate the end of our annual charity campaign, Monday was at our training center for a developer's conference, and then today back in my office. My view, very subject to being wrong, is that if I go through the end of this week kilted, I will have gotten everybody comortable with my wearing the kilt and it will become just part of my wardrobe. I may wear the kilt or I may wear pants, people won't care or take notice, in contrast to currently where people still wonder why I wear a kilt. Some are colleagues and ask good naturedly why I am wearing a kilt that day, to which I respond "Why are you wearing pants today!" and point them to kiltdyay.com. Others are still getting used to it and need some more time. For example, today as I walked to my truck, somebody (a guy) drove up to me in the parking lot, rolled down the passenger window, and said "is that the new daily uniform?". I smiled and said "Why not?". He looked at me and then said "That takes some balls!". While I was glad for his support (?), that is not why I am wearing a kilt. It is because I have determined that it is very likely part of my heritage (which is why I decided to wear it initially) and is very comfortable, which is why I continue to wear it!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Cyndi and Dave,

I agree wholeheartedly, 100%, with all my heart, and any other superlative or dedication sentiment that you can name, that I would not, will not, and have never endangered my family's financial well being for any reason, whether a current interest for me (as Alan suggested), or a hot stock tip, or a great real estate purchase! I am very conservative when it comes to providing for my family and our retirement. Too many of the relatives on my side of the family did not follow that approach and will be working hard labor jobs until they die. I want to enjoy my life (my goal was to retire at 40, but I might have to wait an additional 5-7 more years).

[Dreadbelly]

Have you ever thought about turning the tables on your wife? Ask if this pleating to the sett (or to the stripe, whatever) makes your butt look fat.

Fair play. Let her find out how it feels.

Or in the middle of a kilt conversation, derail her. Bluntly ask during a tirade, "Darling, do you still find me attractive?" "Do you still love me?" "Do we still have that old spark, or are we just room mates who scratch each other's itch and helps pay each other's bills?" Put her on the defensive. Force her to step back for a moment and re-evaluate something. Not in any mean nasty sort of way.

I have found that if you derail a conversation with a woman enough, like with the examples I listed, they stop saying so much. Call it a conditioned response. My wife knows if she puts me on the spot, that I will put her on the spot. Keeps us on even footing and it is what makes this marriage work. She no longer puts me on the spot unless she absolutely has to, and vice versa. A lot more respect for each other's personal quirks and personal space.

If every time she has to approach you about something causes her to open a can of worms, she will back down just to keep the worm can closed.

Unless of course, you have a woman that likes to open worm cans, and then I can't help you.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Have you ever thought about turning the tables on your wife? Ask if this pleating to the sett (or to the stripe, whatever) makes your butt look fat.

Fair play. Let her find out how it feels.

Or in the middle of a kilt conversation, derail her. Bluntly ask during a tirade, "Darling, do you still find me attractive?" "Do you still love me?" "Do we still have that old spark, or are we just room mates who scratch each other's itch and helps pay each other's bills?" Put her on the defensive. Force her to step back for a moment and re-evaluate something. Not in any mean nasty sort of way.

I have found that if you derail a conversation with a woman enough, like with the examples I listed, they stop saying so much. Call it a conditioned response. My wife knows if she puts me on the spot, that I will put her on the spot. Keeps us on even footing and it is what makes this marriage work. She no longer puts me on the spot unless she absolutely has to, and vice versa. A lot more respect for each other's personal quirks and personal space.

If every time she has to approach you about something causes her to open a can of worms, she will back down just to keep the worm can closed.

Unless of course, you have a woman that likes to open worm cans, and then I can't help you.

Dread, LOL! And not just because of what you suggested, but because I did something similar to this when she came home tonight. I have decided to make some kilts (been reading Barb's book) and purchased 2 different materials this weekend (more to come on that in another thread!). Anyway, I was debating whether the one material should hemmed or the selvedge left as is (think the white line on Graham's latest acquisition). I decided to take it to my resident expert (who said she would not have an answer when I first asked her if she could give me some fashion advice on my kilt making), and she said that I definitely needed a hem on the material in question and was not unhappy to giv me the information. Maybe this is the approach I need to take, let her decide which tartan and the shirt and accessories for each day!