Question for Hamish - White Dress Shirts

**flyv65** · 22nd November 05, 10:37 AM

Button down collars and barrel cuffs are fine for the charcoal tweed jacket, but I prefer spread collar and french cuffs w/ an Argyle jacket and a wing collar w/ french cuffs for the PC.

Bryan...but no-one listens to me regarding men's fashion (wisely, I'm told)...

**millar** · 22nd November 05, 12:03 PM

Does no one think it odd that Hamish has not yet weighed in on this?

**Mike n NC** · 22nd November 05, 12:06 PM

I had never heard that explination of the button down collars Todd but it sounds as logical as any other I have heard. I was also told that the move to button down collars in casual shirts was the expense of replacing lost collar stays. It made the collar stand up without the stays. I know, dating myself there, a lot of the younger members won't have any idea what they were.
Casual, really, really casual. I won't wear any type of tie with a button down collar, I think it looks horrible...Collar all buldged out and buttons pulling. Yech!
JMHO...YMMV

Mike

**macwilkin** · 22nd November 05, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by flyv65

Button down collars and barrel cuffs are fine for the charcoal tweed jacket, but I prefer spread collar and french cuffs w/ an Argyle jacket and a wing collar w/ french cuffs for the PC.

Technically, the wing collar is reserved for white tie. Black tie, such as the PC, should have a "stand-and-fall" or regular collar formal shirt. However, the wing collar shirt has been associated with formal wear so much that it's now become almost "optional" these days.

My formal shirt from TM Lewin is a "stand and fall" collar with french cuffs. I find it to be much more comfortable at formal affairs, especially when the cleaners puts too much starch on your shirt and the wing collar is stiff as a board, rubbing against your neck.

But, that's just my preference...

Cheers,

Todd

**macwilkin** · 22nd November 05, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mike n NC

I had never heard that explination of the button down collars Todd but it sounds as logical as any other I have heard. I was also told that the move to button down collars in casual shirts was the expense of replacing lost collar stays. It made the collar stand up without the stays. I know, dating myself there, a lot of the younger members won't have any idea what they were.
Casual, really, really casual. I won't wear any type of tie with a button down collar, I think it looks horrible...Collar all buldged out and buttons pulling. Yech!
JMHO...YMMV

Mike

Makes sense, Mike, although I kinda like collar stays...have a good collection of them now! ;)

T.

**flyv65** · 22nd November 05, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Technically, the wing collar is reserved for white tie. Black tie, such as the PC, should have a "stand-and-fall" or regular collar formal shirt. However, the wing collar shirt has been associated with formal wear so much that it's now become almost "optional" these days.

I know that white tie is only wing collar, but I thought the days of wing collars only being worn for white tie events ended about the same time Packard closed the factory doors. I suspect that the proliferation of wing collars for formal events began with the rental clothing industry, for much the same reason we're seeing white kilt hose for formal highland wear: ease and simplicity on the part of the rental shop. I wouldn't be surprised to see white hose for formalwear become just as accepted as the wing collar is today if kilt rentals continue to increase.

I suspect that, just as the fashion pendulum swung away from ruffled, pastel formal shirts (the 70's) to the wing collar (80's), then on to the mandarin collar the 90's), we'll see drop collars become more popular again (before we slide back into the ruffled shirt phase [shudder])

Bryan...bet you can guess when I actually bought (instead of renting) my first tuxedo...

**switchblade5984** · 22nd November 05, 03:13 PM

hahaha 2 pages no Hamish lol well looks like you dot alot of opinions!

and i second the kilt book for dummies by hamish

**Robin** · 22nd November 05, 04:24 PM

Hamish probably has no time right now...writing his book :mrgreen:

**Nick** · 22nd November 05, 05:45 PM

I gave up button down collars for spread collars a while ago, because I sometimes wear a tiebar with my ties. I've wanted to get French cuffs, but I haven't been able to find them here until recently. Target of all places currently has some very very nice French cuff shirts. But they're $30, and that's $30 I don't have at the moment, and with the holidays coming up, I'm not going to be spending much on myself for a while. I don't have many occasions to dress up, so I can wait.

**flyv65** · 22nd November 05, 06:01 PM

Hey yeah, I forgot all about my tiebars (I think I've still got two tucked away with my studs and cufflinks someplace). I liked them, but they sometimes didn't stay put very well. Also, the company that required me to wear dress shirts and ties was peopled by socially autistic engineers who weren't sure I wasn't some kind of subversive 'cuz of the tiebars (and the fact that I didn't own *anything* made of polyester couldn't have made them comfortable). Re-locating from Atlanta to the Rockies solved most of my wardrobe problem: jeans and a polo shirt for day to day, chinos if I have to meet with the Big Dogs (if only I could do emergency response in a kilt!).

Bryan...I've often pondered the UK workmans model for fieldwork-but couldn't sell the idea to the H&S wonks from HQ...